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Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti

[www.monsalvat.no]

Like the young Parsifal, the wild woman has many names. The many elements in Wagner's Kundry included another archetype found in literature from the Middle Ages onwards: the Wandering Jew. In Wagner's poem, Kundry becomes a reincarnation of Herodias who, because she had laughed at the Saviour's suffering, was cursed to wander through the world until His return. She is not only cursed to wander, but also always to tell the truth; and she cannot weep, only laugh her accursed laugh. Another Herodias can be found in Heine's poem Atta Troll; this former princess of Judea does not wander the world, but rides, laughing, with the Wild Hunt across the sky. She appears as a cruel rose in Mallarmé's Les fleurs (1864):

L'hyacinthe, le myrte à l'adorable éclair
Et, pareille à la chair de la femme, la rose
Cruelle, Hérodiade en fleur du jardin clair,
Celle qu'un sang farouche et et radieux arrose!

In her Cambridge Handbook, Lucy Beckett entirely misses the point of the Herodias reference, but makes an interesting observation about the reference to Mary Magdalen. Beckett reminds us that in 1848 Wagner had sketched a scenario for a play called Jesus of Nazareth, which includes a scene in which the penitent Magdalen kneels in repentance before Jesus on the shore of Lake Gennesareth; later in the play she was to anoint his head and wash his feet, just as Kundry does toward Parsifal in the opera. Although Wagner repeatedly denied that Parsifal was a Christ- figure (I never gave the Saviour a thought, he said), this image had stayed with him and was incorporated by him into the Good Friday scene.

In Die Sieger, an opera that Wagner never completed, a chaste young man called Ananda receives into the religious community a beautiful girl called Prakriti, who has passionately loved him; but Shakyamuni, the future Buddha persuades him to renounce her. The Buddha reveals that in an earlier incarnation, Prakriti had rejected, with mocking laughter, the love of a young man. Prakriti is a parallel to Mary Magdalen in the sense that both are outcasts. By absorbing these two outcast women, in their different ways excluded and despised by patriarchal societies, who by their associations with the Buddha and Christ respectively introduce further religious iconography to Wagner's drama, Kundry gained a further dimension.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 401 shamanaut 30-May-09 16:38
The work of Acharya S has been debunked 263 Milo 30-May-09 17:13
Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 212 shamanaut 30-May-09 23:14
Obviously Achyara supporters are going to Gawf 238 Milo 31-May-09 00:16
I cant debate with 'Faith' logic. 243 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:15
Re: I cant debate with 'Faith' logic. 222 Milo 31-May-09 16:24
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 257 David L 02-Jun-09 04:31
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 247 Milo 02-Jun-09 09:41
Re: Obviously Christians are going to Gawf 206 David L 03-Jun-09 04:48
Everyone on this forum has different beliefs to the next poster anyway 227 Milo 03-Jun-09 09:50
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 226 David Campbell 31-May-09 01:02
Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 281 Milo 31-May-09 01:10
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 204 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:02
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 221 Milo 31-May-09 02:23
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 209 Eddie Larry 31-May-09 03:06
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 219 Milo 31-May-09 03:18
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 215 Eddie Larry 31-May-09 03:33
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 218 Milo 31-May-09 03:47
Re: Nazareth - Archeological Evidence 213 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:44
Plagiarism 235 Milo 31-May-09 11:12
Re: Plagiarism 218 David Campbell 31-May-09 17:14
Re: Plagiarism 249 Milo 31-May-09 17:31
Re: Plagiarism 266 Lee McGiffen 03-Jun-09 14:08
Re: Plagiarism 191 Milo 03-Jun-09 21:48
Re: Plagiarism 232 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 02:29
Re: Plagiarism 237 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:34
Demons 222 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:40
Re: Demons 190 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 02:50
Re: Demons 225 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:03
Re: Plagiarism 219 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:07
Re: Plagiarism 200 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 05:23
Re: Plagiarism 216 Milo 04-Jun-09 12:14
Re: Plagiarism 241 Lee McGiffen 04-Jun-09 12:30
Re: Plagiarism 218 Milo 04-Jun-09 12:35
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 216 papalou 03-Jun-09 23:03
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 220 Milo 03-Jun-09 23:09
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 246 papalou 04-Jun-09 18:01
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 202 Milo 04-Jun-09 18:57
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 201 martinpescatore 04-Jun-09 19:06
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 211 papalou 07-Jun-09 22:40
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 199 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:41
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 220 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 08:25
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 238 Milo 08-Jun-09 12:42
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 196 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 13:49
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 263 Milo 08-Jun-09 13:53
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 237 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 14:44
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 217 Milo 08-Jun-09 14:52
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 234 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 15:23
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 250 Milo 08-Jun-09 15:32
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 212 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 16:14
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 219 Milo 08-Jun-09 16:21
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 175 martinpescatore 08-Jun-09 16:31
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 203 Milo 08-Jun-09 16:34
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 235 papalou 09-Jun-09 04:13
Re: The work of Acharya S has been debunked 212 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:18
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 234 David Campbell 31-May-09 00:42
The Underlying Agenda 206 Milo 31-May-09 01:03
Re: The Underlying Agenda 249 David Campbell 31-May-09 01:18
Re: The Underlying Agenda 221 Milo 31-May-09 01:27
O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 199 Milo 31-May-09 01:48
Re: O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 219 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:41
Re: O wunden, wundenwoller heilige Speer! 183 Milo 31-May-09 02:44
Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 225 Milo 31-May-09 02:52
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 189 David Campbell 31-May-09 03:58
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 242 Milo 31-May-09 04:11
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 245 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:22
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 230 Milo 31-May-09 04:31
Re: Herodias, Magdalen and Prakriti 259 Milo 31-May-09 04:34
Re: The Underlying Agenda 239 David Campbell 31-May-09 02:28
Re: The Underlying Agenda 224 Milo 31-May-09 02:40
Re: The Underlying Agenda 210 David Campbell 31-May-09 03:03
Re: The Underlying Agenda 249 Milo 31-May-09 03:20
Re: The Underlying Agenda 216 David Campbell 31-May-09 04:11
Re: The Underlying Agenda 253 Milo 31-May-09 04:29
Re: The Underlying Agenda 214 The Kwuda 01-Jun-09 17:43
Re: The Underlying Agenda 222 Milo 01-Jun-09 19:14
Re: The Underlying Agenda 209 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 10:55
Re: The Underlying Agenda 202 Milo 02-Jun-09 11:09
Re: The Underlying Agenda 202 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:40
Re: The Underlying Agenda 253 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:41
Re: The Underlying Agenda 195 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:51
Re: The Underlying Agenda 248 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:42
Re: The Underlying Agenda 239 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:16
Re: The Underlying Agenda 214 Milo 02-Jun-09 22:04
Re: The Underlying Agenda 248 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:47
source of my quote 220 shamanaut 31-May-09 16:48
Re: source of my quote 236 Milo 31-May-09 17:27
Re: source of my quote 223 Milo 31-May-09 17:40
Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 223 Raja 01-Jun-09 21:25
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 310 Raja 01-Jun-09 21:30
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 239 R and M 02-Jun-09 09:18
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 227 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:04
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 202 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:45
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 241 R and M 03-Jun-09 04:28
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 201 The Kwuda 04-Jun-09 06:39
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 242 Milo 04-Jun-09 10:35
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 195 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:31
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 227 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:34
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 211 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 239 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 207 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:40
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 218 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 193 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:46
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 249 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:47
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 222 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 201 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 223 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:39
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 221 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:41
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 214 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 203 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:45
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 211 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:47
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 196 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:48
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 226 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:50
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 217 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 211 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 218 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 193 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:53
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 194 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:55
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 230 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:56
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 223 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:58
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 214 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:02
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 215 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:01
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 263 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:03
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 190 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:06
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 204 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:09
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 179 The Kwuda 06-Jun-09 00:13
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 225 Milo 06-Jun-09 00:28
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 245 R and M 04-Jun-09 10:49
The two seeds of Genesis 3 195 Milo 04-Jun-09 11:39
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 205 R and M 05-Jun-09 05:47
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 216 Milo 05-Jun-09 10:21
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 241 R and M 05-Jun-09 13:29
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 214 ariston 05-Jun-09 13:41
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 192 Milo 05-Jun-09 14:14
correction... 194 Milo 05-Jun-09 14:16
Re: correction... 187 ariston 05-Jun-09 14:39
Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 241 Milo 05-Jun-09 15:01
correction... 212 Milo 05-Jun-09 15:45
Re: correction... 199 ariston 05-Jun-09 18:16
Re: correction... 233 Milo 05-Jun-09 22:30
Re: correction... 243 ariston 06-Jun-09 02:19
Re: correction... 214 Milo 06-Jun-09 03:00
Re: correction... 182 ariston 06-Jun-09 04:12
Re: correction... 207 Milo 06-Jun-09 04:23
Re: correction... 215 Eddie Larry 07-Jun-09 15:23
Re: correction... 217 Milo 07-Jun-09 17:42
Re: correction... 253 Eddie Larry 09-Jun-09 02:50
Re: correction... 234 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:19
Re: correction... 182 Eddie Larry 10-Jun-09 00:50
Re: correction... 228 Milo 10-Jun-09 05:02
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 226 papalou 07-Jun-09 22:53
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 213 papalou 07-Jun-09 23:15
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 232 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:45
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 268 papalou 07-Jun-09 23:24
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 209 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:48
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 223 papalou 09-Jun-09 04:18
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 242 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:20
Re: Ying and Yang is a flawed philosophy 186 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:44
Re: The two seeds of Genesis 3 231 R and M 06-Jun-09 07:54
ABC 257 Milo 06-Jun-09 12:36
Re: the end 244 R and M 07-Jun-09 10:12
Re: the end 212 Milo 07-Jun-09 11:20
Re: the end 197 R and M 08-Jun-09 07:15
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 226 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:00
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 237 Milo 02-Jun-09 11:10
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 211 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:37
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 221 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 11:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 190 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 226 Milo 02-Jun-09 13:43
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 188 The Kwuda 02-Jun-09 17:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 226 shamanaut 03-Jun-09 17:07
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 213 Milo 03-Jun-09 21:50
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 208 Raja 04-Jun-09 07:14
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 276 Aine 04-Jun-09 15:59
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 220 Milo 04-Jun-09 19:07
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 298 Aine 04-Jun-09 19:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 240 Milo 04-Jun-09 20:31
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 182 martinpescatore 04-Jun-09 21:20
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 185 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:26
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 233 martinpescatore 05-Jun-09 06:18
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 251 Milo 05-Jun-09 10:22
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 237 martinpescatore 05-Jun-09 20:16
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 200 Raja 05-Jun-09 21:10
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 228 carolb 04-Jun-09 20:19
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 230 Milo 04-Jun-09 20:35
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 244 carolb 04-Jun-09 21:23
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 179 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:30
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 246 carolb 04-Jun-09 22:44
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 213 Milo 04-Jun-09 22:51
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 216 carolb 04-Jun-09 22:59
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 179 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:02
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 192 carolb 04-Jun-09 23:14
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 221 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:33
Re: Here's the firebrigade, fire turns to smoke... 215 Milo 04-Jun-09 23:35
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 227 Tom Hebert 02-Jun-09 18:11
jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 219 Eddie Larry 03-Jun-09 04:44
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 275 Susan Doris 03-Jun-09 08:40
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 219 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 01:13
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 164 Tom Hebert 03-Jun-09 10:31
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 209 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:15
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 241 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:16
Jesus was not a myth 220 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:18
Re: jesus was a man; Jesus was a myth 247 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 185 Diomede 04-Jun-09 00:11
For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 205 David L 04-Jun-09 02:34
Re: For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 204 Milo 04-Jun-09 02:38
Re: For a guy who never existed, he gets a lot of attention on the GHMB 222 Eddie Larry 04-Jun-09 03:10
Jesus 268 Milo 04-Jun-09 03:14
Diabolical Mimicry 232 Deep1 04-Jun-09 21:11
Re: Diabolical Mimicry 221 Milo 04-Jun-09 21:15
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 198 Enigcom 05-Jun-09 17:43
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 179 The Kwuda 05-Jun-09 23:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 223 Milo 05-Jun-09 23:50
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 187 deeside 06-Jun-09 19:42
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 237 Milo 06-Jun-09 20:07
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 229 deeside 06-Jun-09 20:47
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 248 Milo 06-Jun-09 20:51
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 247 deeside 06-Jun-09 21:08
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 200 Milo 06-Jun-09 21:18
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 232 deeside 06-Jun-09 21:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 204 deeside 07-Jun-09 09:16
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 233 Milo 07-Jun-09 11:16
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 226 childinthesun 07-Jun-09 17:02
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 212 Milo 07-Jun-09 17:44
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 225 ariston 07-Jun-09 17:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 233 Milo 07-Jun-09 18:05
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 202 deeside 08-Jun-09 14:46
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 205 Milo 08-Jun-09 14:57
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 249 deeside 08-Jun-09 21:32
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 232 Milo 09-Jun-09 05:21
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 229 ariston 06-Jun-09 20:52
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 176 Milo 06-Jun-09 21:25
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 248 deeside 07-Jun-09 21:24
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 210 Milo 08-Jun-09 04:49
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 203 Eddie Larry 09-Jun-09 00:23
jesus was there... 217 shazaman 09-Jun-09 09:54
Re: jesus was there... 227 papalou 11-Jun-09 02:08
Re: jesus was there... 202 Milo 11-Jun-09 08:46
Re: jesus was there... 195 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 09:38
Re: jesus was there... 216 Milo 11-Jun-09 10:14
Re: jesus was there... 198 Milo 11-Jun-09 10:37
Re: jesus was there... 228 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 11:32
Re: jesus was there... 259 Milo 11-Jun-09 13:17
Re: jesus was there... 215 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 19:56
Re: jesus was there... 216 Milo 11-Jun-09 21:44
Re: Was Jesus a Myth? Blog of Acharya S 220 martinpescatore 11-Jun-09 15:36


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