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>Jon B's diagram ( if it is accurate ... has anyone checked it ??? ) is going to be a staple and great reference work on the pyramid for years to come, I wonder if he realised the enormity of his little exercise. Meanwhile ...<

I think you're going a bit over the top Don. I don't think Scott is extracting any actual data from my diagram so it only serves to illustrate the points he's making.

But as you mention accuracy the layer heights are taken directly from Petrie's figures and I'm confident that they are accurate to his results. However the relationship between the layers and the internal elements is not always as clear. I've again used Petrie's figures and he quotes heights above the base for the positions of the chambers etc. However he could not measure these directly so he derived them mathematically from his own and Smyth's measurements of angles and lengths etc.

These results have become so accepted that they form the basis of nearly every diagram you see of the inside of the Great Pyramid but they have been challenged by some authors who have pointed out some inconsistencies according to how you plot the chambers from Petrie's data. Basically if you work with his quoted angles and use trigonometry things come out slightly different than if you use his "offsets". Most of this comes from the fact that Petrie always quotes a tolerance for his figures and this is invariably ignored as you can't draw a line that varies by plus or minus 6 inches for example or an angle of plus or minus .5°. It's also difficult to show detail on a small drawing where the lines themselves are several inches thick in reality. Lehner has written about how some of the internal positions in the great Pyramid aren't known as accurately as some seem to think. He highlights differences between Maragioglio & Rinaldi's drawings and some of Petrie's for example.

There is another problem with using Petrie's layer data which he himself points out. There are some fairly wide differences between the heights of individual layers from side to side. This can be as much as 6.6 inches. Petrie measured the heights at two corners and I've used his figures for the North East which is what everyone else seems to do. But had he just measured the South West corner, for example, then the figures would be different.

Petrie's figures aren't the only ones for the layer heights and more recent measurements exist. George Goyon measured them in 1978. They appear in BIFAO (Bulletin de'l Institut Francais D'archéologie Orientale) Volume 78 and were subsequently republished in his book on the Great Pyramid. Something odd happens if you try and compare the two sets and I'm still trying to resolve some discrepancies. Though these are mainly concerned with the layers higher up above most of the internal elements. (Other earlier measurements exist such as Smyth's and Jomard's but these all have problems and are not really usable now)

Also as I pointed out to Scott when he asked if he could use my drawing the shafts are not shown accurately. I was preparing a 2D drawing to create a 3D model of the Great Pyramid and I actually plotted the shafts separately and only put them on this drawing approximately. Basically the drawing was done as preliminary to include objects that are symmetrical around the North-South axis which the shafts certainly aren't. All the internal chambers were actually built in 3D separately and then incorporated into my final model so the diagram Scott used was never intended as a final work and only put on the web after a request elsewhere. Personally I find the data for the Northern Shaft from the Queen's Chamber so ambiguous that I don't think you can derive an overall angle for it at all.

I also think that any theory based on exact values of layer heights is a non starter as these heights vary from side to side and according to who measured them. You can make general comments like "layer 35 is the second tallest" but an exact measurement isn't available and a stated tolerance is necessary. I'm happy for anyone to use my diagram but I don't, personally, agree with Scott's conclusions at all.

I haven't read through all the posts but saw a comment on the position of the Queen's Chamber floor. According to Petrie the floor is 834.4 +- .4 inches above the base. Layer 23 starts at 820.3 inches and layer 24 at 852.7 inches. In this case Petrie only quotes a .1 inch variation in the two corners.

Jon

www.egyptarchive.co.uk

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 594 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 01:41
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 324 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 03:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Broker 23-Aug-07 04:15
Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 358 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 11:20
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 345 P Mac 23-Aug-07 12:17
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 386 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:34
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 429 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 379 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:28
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 373 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:30
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 340 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 21:15
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 388 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:25
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 348 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 15:36
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 362 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:16
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 364 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:22
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 372 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:45
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 316 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Broker 24-Aug-07 02:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 363 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 15:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 383 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 16:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 371 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 279 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 08:36
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 P Mac 23-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 365 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 375 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 387 NetWorkAngel 24-Aug-07 20:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 21:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 249 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 401 P Mac 23-Aug-07 17:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 351 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:08
A bit of clarification 328 Jon B 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: A bit of clarification 294 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 386 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 409 mephisto 23-Aug-07 07:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 08:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 360 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 370 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 11:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 257 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:55
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 13:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 400 Sirfiroth 24-Aug-07 14:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 15:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 376 Sirfiroth 25-Aug-07 03:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 318 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 328 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 12:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 351 magisterchessmutt 24-Aug-07 12:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 370 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 314 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 388 Ghia 23-Aug-07 08:40
Wow! 462 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Wow! 382 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:06
Re: Wow! 366 Jackfrost 24-Aug-07 16:09
Re: Wow! 342 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Wow! 375 Saravuth 26-Aug-07 02:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 222 Morph 23-Aug-07 09:07
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 Morph 23-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 313 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 376 mephisto 23-Aug-07 12:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 438 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 12:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 Spiros 23-Aug-07 09:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 268 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 13:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 361 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 374 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 350 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 13:56
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Sirfiroth 23-Aug-07 13:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 300 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:09
More fully... 386 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:53
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 283 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:08
Addendum: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 293 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 23:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 343 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 403 drrayeye 23-Aug-07 14:47
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 343 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 467 drrayeye 24-Aug-07 14:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 15:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 381 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 385 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 358 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 322 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:42
oops pls read "can't" instead of can N/T 387 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 314 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 21:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 343 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 13:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 297 Joe Atlantis 23-Aug-07 19:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 360 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 386 Warwick 24-Aug-07 17:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 430 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 17:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:11
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 363 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 385 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 390 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 364 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 383 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 Warwick 26-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 352 Broker 26-Aug-07 19:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:52
Moderator Note 380 Ghia 26-Aug-07 23:31
Re: Moderator Note 350 Warwick 29-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 406 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Moderator Note 345 Warwick 01-Sep-07 18:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 273 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 246 caugusto 24-Aug-07 21:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 321 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 363 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 343 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 404 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 352 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 19:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 366 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 333 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 20:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 20:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 372 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 20:53
More Chills... 276 Ghia 25-Aug-07 00:21
Re: More Chills... 335 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:12
Re: More Chills... 327 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 12:31
Re: More Chills... 193 P Mac 25-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 351 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 425 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 01:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 11:00
A shadow beyond the doubt 381 drew 25-Aug-07 03:06
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 344 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 03:41
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 419 drew 25-Aug-07 12:43
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 341 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 369 Saravuth 25-Aug-07 14:34
please explain 322 Spiros 25-Aug-07 14:40
Re: please explain 351 Mr. Hunter 25-Aug-07 15:48
Re: please explain 360 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 00:17
Re: please explain 353 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:11
the solution? 351 Spiros 25-Aug-07 18:53
Re: the solution? 376 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 20:49
Re: the solution? 312 Spiros 25-Aug-07 21:50
Re: the solution? 343 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 22:11
Re: the solution? 308 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 00:23
Re: the solution? 323 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 01:21
Re: the solution? 326 Dale Robert Lerch 26-Aug-07 07:47
Re: the solution? 352 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:28
Re: the solution? 369 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:37
Re: the solution? 300 Spiros 27-Aug-07 19:18
Re: the solution? 344 Gary Osborn 27-Aug-07 19:23
Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 364 Ahatmose 26-Aug-07 02:04
Re: Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 358 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 382 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 01:52
Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 429 drrayeye 26-Aug-07 20:29
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 280 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 376 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:54
Firestone 422 drrayeye 27-Aug-07 20:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 333 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 02:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 366 Ghia 27-Aug-07 03:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 310 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 05:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 360 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 06:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 07:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 383 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 14:51
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 376 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:02
Addendum ... 408 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:31
Re: Addendum ... 366 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Addendum ... 322 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:00
Re: Addendum ... 359 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 353 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 19:28
This may help, Don 336 Cesar 27-Aug-07 22:18
Re: This may help, Don 348 Ghia 27-Aug-07 23:40
Re: This may help, Don 373 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 23:59
Re: This may help, Don 355 Cesar 28-Aug-07 02:40
Re: This may help, Don 328 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 02:51
Re: This may help, Don 345 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 400 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 05:29
Re: This may help, Don 368 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 02:15
Re: This may help, Don 381 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 435 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 10:56
Re: This may help, Don 335 Cesar 28-Aug-07 21:44
The Impactor 324 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 22:17
Re: This may help, Don 272 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 11:38
Intriguing 397 Cesar 01-Sep-07 12:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 427 LonelyAngel 27-Aug-07 18:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 376 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 18:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 391 LonelyAngel 28-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 Deep1 28-Aug-07 18:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 332 LonelyAngel 29-Aug-07 20:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Deep1 29-Aug-07 20:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 21:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 16:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 364 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 17:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 317 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 21:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 21:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 21:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 369 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 23:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Morph 31-Aug-07 11:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 18:55
One major problem as I see it ... 316 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 23:07
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 373 P Mac 29-Aug-07 00:02
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 304 magisterchessmutt 29-Aug-07 00:25
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 386 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 00:33
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 360 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 02:39
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 372 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 03:04
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 398 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 03:15
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 347 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 05:24
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 289 Cesar 29-Aug-07 02:21
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 367 caugusto 29-Aug-07 04:40
Re: One major Solution? 347 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 09:56
Re: One major Solution? 404 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:47
Re: One major Solution? 315 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 00:16
Re: One major Solution? 361 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 19:24
Re: One major Solution? 407 P Mac 31-Aug-07 12:44
Re: One major Solution? 345 Richard Essame 31-Aug-07 23:39
Re: One major Solution? 338 Scott Creighton 01-Sep-07 10:25
Re: One major Solution? 308 P Mac 01-Sep-07 16:13
Re: One major Solution? 351 P Mac 02-Sep-07 00:23
Re: One major Solution? 349 Ahatmose 02-Sep-07 01:50
Or another solution... 379 drew 29-Aug-07 21:35
Re: Or another solution... 309 Jackfrost 30-Aug-07 15:46
Re: Or another solution... 304 P Mac 30-Aug-07 16:39
Re: Or another solution... 367 Jackfrost 31-Aug-07 10:55
Re: Or another solution... 385 P Mac 31-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Or another solution... 371 Richard Essame 01-Sep-07 01:57


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