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>Jon B's diagram ( if it is accurate ... has anyone checked it ??? ) is going to be a staple and great reference work on the pyramid for years to come, I wonder if he realised the enormity of his little exercise. Meanwhile ...<

I think you're going a bit over the top Don. I don't think Scott is extracting any actual data from my diagram so it only serves to illustrate the points he's making.

But as you mention accuracy the layer heights are taken directly from Petrie's figures and I'm confident that they are accurate to his results. However the relationship between the layers and the internal elements is not always as clear. I've again used Petrie's figures and he quotes heights above the base for the positions of the chambers etc. However he could not measure these directly so he derived them mathematically from his own and Smyth's measurements of angles and lengths etc.

These results have become so accepted that they form the basis of nearly every diagram you see of the inside of the Great Pyramid but they have been challenged by some authors who have pointed out some inconsistencies according to how you plot the chambers from Petrie's data. Basically if you work with his quoted angles and use trigonometry things come out slightly different than if you use his "offsets". Most of this comes from the fact that Petrie always quotes a tolerance for his figures and this is invariably ignored as you can't draw a line that varies by plus or minus 6 inches for example or an angle of plus or minus .5°. It's also difficult to show detail on a small drawing where the lines themselves are several inches thick in reality. Lehner has written about how some of the internal positions in the great Pyramid aren't known as accurately as some seem to think. He highlights differences between Maragioglio & Rinaldi's drawings and some of Petrie's for example.

There is another problem with using Petrie's layer data which he himself points out. There are some fairly wide differences between the heights of individual layers from side to side. This can be as much as 6.6 inches. Petrie measured the heights at two corners and I've used his figures for the North East which is what everyone else seems to do. But had he just measured the South West corner, for example, then the figures would be different.

Petrie's figures aren't the only ones for the layer heights and more recent measurements exist. George Goyon measured them in 1978. They appear in BIFAO (Bulletin de'l Institut Francais D'archéologie Orientale) Volume 78 and were subsequently republished in his book on the Great Pyramid. Something odd happens if you try and compare the two sets and I'm still trying to resolve some discrepancies. Though these are mainly concerned with the layers higher up above most of the internal elements. (Other earlier measurements exist such as Smyth's and Jomard's but these all have problems and are not really usable now)

Also as I pointed out to Scott when he asked if he could use my drawing the shafts are not shown accurately. I was preparing a 2D drawing to create a 3D model of the Great Pyramid and I actually plotted the shafts separately and only put them on this drawing approximately. Basically the drawing was done as preliminary to include objects that are symmetrical around the North-South axis which the shafts certainly aren't. All the internal chambers were actually built in 3D separately and then incorporated into my final model so the diagram Scott used was never intended as a final work and only put on the web after a request elsewhere. Personally I find the data for the Northern Shaft from the Queen's Chamber so ambiguous that I don't think you can derive an overall angle for it at all.

I also think that any theory based on exact values of layer heights is a non starter as these heights vary from side to side and according to who measured them. You can make general comments like "layer 35 is the second tallest" but an exact measurement isn't available and a stated tolerance is necessary. I'm happy for anyone to use my diagram but I don't, personally, agree with Scott's conclusions at all.

I haven't read through all the posts but saw a comment on the position of the Queen's Chamber floor. According to Petrie the floor is 834.4 +- .4 inches above the base. Layer 23 starts at 820.3 inches and layer 24 at 852.7 inches. In this case Petrie only quotes a .1 inch variation in the two corners.

Jon

www.egyptarchive.co.uk

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 596 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 01:41
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 325 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 03:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Broker 23-Aug-07 04:15
Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 359 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 11:20
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 347 P Mac 23-Aug-07 12:17
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 388 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:34
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 430 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 381 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:28
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 375 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:30
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 341 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 21:15
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 390 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:25
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 350 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 15:36
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 364 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:16
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 366 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:22
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 373 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:45
Re: Special Thanks to Gary Osborn 317 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 350 Broker 24-Aug-07 02:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 366 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 15:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 317 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 384 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 16:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 373 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 281 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 08:36
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 324 P Mac 23-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 370 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 366 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 377 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 20:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 389 NetWorkAngel 24-Aug-07 20:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 21:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 251 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 361 Kboldt 23-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 404 P Mac 23-Aug-07 17:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 284 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 19:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 353 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 20:08
A bit of clarification 330 Jon B 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: A bit of clarification 295 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 388 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:50
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 411 mephisto 23-Aug-07 07:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 08:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 372 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 11:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 259 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:55
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 13:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 401 Sirfiroth 24-Aug-07 14:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 15:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 377 Sirfiroth 25-Aug-07 03:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 P Mac 24-Aug-07 11:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 330 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 12:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 magisterchessmutt 24-Aug-07 12:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 372 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 14:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 316 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 390 Ghia 23-Aug-07 08:40
Wow! 464 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Wow! 384 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:06
Re: Wow! 367 Jackfrost 24-Aug-07 16:09
Re: Wow! 343 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Wow! 377 Saravuth 26-Aug-07 02:35
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 224 Morph 23-Aug-07 09:07
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 348 Ghia 23-Aug-07 09:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Morph 23-Aug-07 10:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 314 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:58
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 377 mephisto 23-Aug-07 12:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 441 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 12:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 364 Spiros 23-Aug-07 09:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 270 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 13:54
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 364 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 376 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:20
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 352 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 13:56
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Sirfiroth 23-Aug-07 13:31
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 302 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:09
More fully... 388 Morph 23-Aug-07 13:53
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 285 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:08
Addendum: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 295 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Gary Osborn 23-Aug-07 23:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Morph 23-Aug-07 14:13
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 404 drrayeye 23-Aug-07 14:47
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 345 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:18
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 468 drrayeye 24-Aug-07 14:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 15:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Ahatmose 23-Aug-07 15:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 324 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 16:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 383 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 386 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 359 NetWorkAngel 23-Aug-07 17:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:42
oops pls read "can't" instead of can N/T 388 Joyeuse 23-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 315 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 21:22
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 346 Dale Robert Lerch 24-Aug-07 09:06
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 316 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 13:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 299 Joe Atlantis 23-Aug-07 19:25
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 Scott Creighton 23-Aug-07 20:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 387 Warwick 24-Aug-07 17:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 432 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 17:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 337 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:11
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 365 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 388 Warwick 24-Aug-07 18:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 392 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 358 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 366 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:33
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 339 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 385 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 Warwick 26-Aug-07 17:26
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 354 Broker 26-Aug-07 19:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 349 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:52
Moderator Note 383 Ghia 26-Aug-07 23:31
Re: Moderator Note 352 Warwick 29-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Moderator Note 409 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:21
Re: Moderator Note 348 Warwick 01-Sep-07 18:28
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 275 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 247 caugusto 24-Aug-07 21:34
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 323 Warwick 25-Aug-07 17:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 365 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 18:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 18:42
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 406 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 18:49
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 355 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 301 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 19:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 Ahatmose 24-Aug-07 20:16
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 318 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 20:45
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 374 Scott Creighton 24-Aug-07 20:53
More Chills... 278 Ghia 25-Aug-07 00:21
Re: More Chills... 338 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:12
Re: More Chills... 329 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 12:31
Re: More Chills... 195 P Mac 25-Aug-07 13:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 353 Kboldt 24-Aug-07 19:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Gary Osborn 24-Aug-07 19:29
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 427 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 01:48
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 359 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 11:00
A shadow beyond the doubt 382 drew 25-Aug-07 03:06
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 346 jnisbet 25-Aug-07 03:41
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 420 drew 25-Aug-07 12:43
Re: A shadow beyond the doubt 343 P Mac 25-Aug-07 11:46
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 370 Saravuth 25-Aug-07 14:34
please explain 323 Spiros 25-Aug-07 14:40
Re: please explain 351 Mr. Hunter 25-Aug-07 15:48
Re: please explain 362 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 00:17
Re: please explain 354 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:11
the solution? 352 Spiros 25-Aug-07 18:53
Re: the solution? 378 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 20:49
Re: the solution? 315 Spiros 25-Aug-07 21:50
Re: the solution? 345 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 22:11
Re: the solution? 310 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 00:23
Re: the solution? 325 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 01:21
Re: the solution? 329 Dale Robert Lerch 26-Aug-07 07:47
Re: the solution? 353 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:28
Re: the solution? 371 Gary Osborn 26-Aug-07 12:37
Re: the solution? 302 Spiros 27-Aug-07 19:18
Re: the solution? 345 Gary Osborn 27-Aug-07 19:23
Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 366 Ahatmose 26-Aug-07 02:04
Re: Question remains unanswered ... at least to me. 360 Scott Creighton 26-Aug-07 20:05
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 383 Scott Creighton 25-Aug-07 17:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 302 magisterchessmutt 26-Aug-07 01:52
Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 430 drrayeye 26-Aug-07 20:29
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 281 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Testing and validating the Giza axial tilt theory 378 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:54
Firestone 423 drrayeye 27-Aug-07 20:10
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 335 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 02:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 368 Ghia 27-Aug-07 03:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 347 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 311 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 05:00
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 06:04
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 362 magisterchessmutt 27-Aug-07 06:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 07:12
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 385 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 14:19
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 359 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 14:51
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 378 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:02
Addendum ... 409 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 16:31
Re: Addendum ... 369 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 16:49
Re: Addendum ... 324 Ahatmose 27-Aug-07 17:00
Re: Addendum ... 361 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 17:30
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Richard Essame 27-Aug-07 19:28
This may help, Don 338 Cesar 27-Aug-07 22:18
Re: This may help, Don 350 Ghia 27-Aug-07 23:40
Re: This may help, Don 375 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 23:59
Re: This may help, Don 357 Cesar 28-Aug-07 02:40
Re: This may help, Don 328 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 02:51
Re: This may help, Don 348 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 401 Sirfiroth 28-Aug-07 05:29
Re: This may help, Don 370 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 02:15
Re: This may help, Don 384 Cesar 28-Aug-07 04:12
Re: This may help, Don 437 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 10:56
Re: This may help, Don 337 Cesar 28-Aug-07 21:44
The Impactor 327 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 22:17
Re: This may help, Don 275 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 11:38
Intriguing 399 Cesar 01-Sep-07 12:03
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 427 LonelyAngel 27-Aug-07 18:37
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 378 Scott Creighton 27-Aug-07 18:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 392 LonelyAngel 28-Aug-07 17:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 342 Deep1 28-Aug-07 18:52
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 333 LonelyAngel 29-Aug-07 20:38
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 340 Deep1 29-Aug-07 20:59
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 21:23
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 341 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 16:24
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 367 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 17:02
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 349 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 17:43
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 319 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 20:01
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 356 Scott Creighton 30-Aug-07 21:17
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 349 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 21:44
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 331 LonelyAngel 30-Aug-07 21:57
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 372 Gary Osborn 30-Aug-07 23:40
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 369 Morph 31-Aug-07 11:39
Re: Great Pyramid Axial Tilt Theory 357 Scott Creighton 28-Aug-07 18:55
One major problem as I see it ... 318 Ahatmose 28-Aug-07 23:07
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 375 P Mac 29-Aug-07 00:02
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 306 magisterchessmutt 29-Aug-07 00:25
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 388 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 00:33
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 362 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 02:39
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 373 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 03:04
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 400 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 03:15
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 348 Richard Essame 29-Aug-07 05:24
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 291 Cesar 29-Aug-07 02:21
Re: One major problem as I see it ... 368 caugusto 29-Aug-07 04:40
Re: One major Solution? 348 Scott Creighton 29-Aug-07 09:56
Re: One major Solution? 405 Ahatmose 29-Aug-07 17:47
Re: One major Solution? 316 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 00:16
Re: One major Solution? 363 Richard Essame 30-Aug-07 19:24
Re: One major Solution? 408 P Mac 31-Aug-07 12:44
Re: One major Solution? 347 Richard Essame 31-Aug-07 23:39
Re: One major Solution? 339 Scott Creighton 01-Sep-07 10:25
Re: One major Solution? 310 P Mac 01-Sep-07 16:13
Re: One major Solution? 352 P Mac 02-Sep-07 00:23
Re: One major Solution? 351 Ahatmose 02-Sep-07 01:50
Or another solution... 380 drew 29-Aug-07 21:35
Re: Or another solution... 309 Jackfrost 30-Aug-07 15:46
Re: Or another solution... 305 P Mac 30-Aug-07 16:39
Re: Or another solution... 368 Jackfrost 31-Aug-07 10:55
Re: Or another solution... 387 P Mac 31-Aug-07 16:01
Re: Or another solution... 372 Richard Essame 01-Sep-07 01:57


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