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Hi Pete,

A couple of points:

The concept of earlier 'civilising' White Gods was common to more than one Sth American culture-- amongst others- and is largely responsible for the viability given to this notion by later "LC"-ers. The most well documented case, as you would know, being that of Cortes' conquest of Mexico- Montezuma assuming him to be their returning[ white ]god Quetzacoatl. It was this belief that paralysed the will of the aztecs initially.

The second point is that few these days would regard the Conquistadores as a superior or 'civilising' influence- they were to a man 'serial killers', who slaughtered at the behest of a priesthood serving some quaint God who had his only begotten son crucified to atone for the sins he himself implanted in us congenital delinquents- hardly the stuff on enlightenment; the only superiority the Spanish barbarians enjoyed was one of superior firepower[ though one must acknowledge that the Aztecs themselves were not an altogether innocent race ].

And lastly, we do have an accurate record of the most recent 'conquest' of a continent- Australia:
The white invaders did not at the time consider themselves a 'civilising' force- they were afterall dumping cargoes of convicts as far away from home as they could possibly get. But they did in due course implant the accoutrements of a separate culture- writing, farming, domestication of stock and of course, a permanent architecture- the only housing ever undertaken by the locals was a single slab of bark against a pole called a mia-mia, a simple protection against the prevailing wind.

Now I think it is possible to argue dispassionately that after 60,000yrs of habitation on this continent, the local aboriginals were never going to construct a Sydney Opera House, or a Harbour Bridge; they had other priorities.
Their culture was one of living in harmony with nature- as opposed to the colonisers whose imperative was to impose their will on the land and all its resources. It is difficult to suggest one of these imperatives as being superior to the other- they both bring a richness of awareness to their practitioners- albeit diametrically opposed in motivation.
[ The resultant interchange of these two cultures after a couple of hundred years is mixed in advantage: certainly the indigenous peoples have lost out in habitat, in health, in identity...., but increasingly many have learned to adapt the introduced customs to advantage- contemporary aboriginal art is increasingly recognised around the world as being perhaps the most vital movement anywhere; there have been similar innovations in music- and an actor who has won an academy award. And there is belatedly a recognition by the descendents of the colonists that the indigenous culture- its mythology, its arts, and particularly its relationship with the environment, is something that must be preserved for own joint cultures to remain sustainable ].

The concept of colonisation anywhere as a 'civilising influence', is I would agree, a condescension, is potentially racist;
but to suggest, after an impartial and objective study of all the available evidence, the possibility of a proto-culture somewhere in the mists of our unrecorded past giving rise to similar developments in architecture and beliefs in diverse parts of the world is . to my mind, in no way RACIST.

cheers,

Fiasco

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Subject Views Written By Posted
diffusion/hyper 464 scimitar 23-Mar-04 15:54
Re: diffusion/hyper 356 Dave Light 23-Mar-04 21:09
Re: diffusion/hyper 363 scimitar 05-Apr-04 06:02
Re: diffusion/hyper 333 fiascohoho 23-Mar-04 23:12
Re: diffusion/hyper 416 SunSword 24-Mar-04 14:14
Re: diffusion/hyper 233 fiascohoho 24-Mar-04 17:48
Re: diffusion/hyper 387 scimitar 05-Apr-04 06:05
Re: diffusion/hyper 335 barrystutner 24-Mar-04 15:50
Re: diffusion/hyper 335 Joanne 24-Mar-04 16:49
Then and now 299 Thirdwave 26-Mar-04 12:21
Re: Then and now 295 Joanne 26-Mar-04 15:01
Re: Then and now 321 fiascohoho 26-Mar-04 19:23
Re: Then and now 308 Thirdwave 28-Mar-04 03:40
Re: Then and now 357 Thirdwave 27-Mar-04 02:45
Re: Then and now 399 Joanne 27-Mar-04 03:30
Re: Then and now 321 Thirdwave 27-Mar-04 04:05
Re: Then and now 375 scimitar 05-Apr-04 07:01
Re: Then and now 333 Alex S 29-Mar-04 17:10
Re: Then and now 323 Joanne 29-Mar-04 18:16
Re: Then and now 382 Alex S 30-Mar-04 03:20
Re: Then and now 315 Joanne 30-Mar-04 16:29
Re: Then and now 381 fiascohoho 30-Mar-04 21:06
Re: Then and now 356 Alex S 31-Mar-04 01:37
Re: Then and now 411 Joanne 31-Mar-04 19:20
Re: Then and now 313 David Billington 31-Mar-04 22:33
Re: Then and now 345 Joanne 01-Apr-04 03:33
Re: Then and now 343 Alex S 01-Apr-04 04:45
Re: Then and now 314 Joanne 01-Apr-04 17:20
Re: Then and now 344 Alex S 02-Apr-04 04:20
Re: Then and now 258 David Billington 01-Apr-04 22:04
Re: Then and now 340 scimitar 05-Apr-04 07:47
Re: Then and now 417 Alex S 01-Apr-04 01:41
Re: Then and now 328 scimitar 05-Apr-04 06:36
Re: Then and now 292 Jerome 05-Apr-04 09:41
Re: Then and now 262 David Billington 06-Apr-04 21:00
Re: Then and now 383 Jerome 07-Apr-04 00:09
Re: Then and now 364 David Billington 07-Apr-04 08:35
Re: Then and now 316 Jerome 07-Apr-04 22:21
Re: Then and now 310 David Billington 08-Apr-04 09:19
Re: Then and now 286 Jerome 08-Apr-04 17:28
Re: Then and now 305 David Billington 29-Mar-04 21:11
Re: Then and now 409 Joanne 29-Mar-04 22:46
Re: Then and now 334 David Billington 30-Mar-04 03:32
Re: Then and now 337 Joanne 30-Mar-04 15:55
Re: Then and now 270 barrystutner 30-Mar-04 18:25
Co-evolution/mutation of cows and humans 335 ananda 30-Mar-04 18:32
Re: Then and now 339 Joanne 30-Mar-04 19:51
Re: diffusion/hyper 324 Jerome 28-Mar-04 22:30
Re: diffusion/hyper 401 Pete Clarke 29-Mar-04 13:18
Re: diffusion/hyper 367 fiascohoho 29-Mar-04 23:36
Re: diffusion/hyper 352 javier 30-Mar-04 11:12
links correction 301 javier 30-Mar-04 11:17
Re: links correction 347 fiascohoho 30-Mar-04 11:59
Re: links correction 329 javier 30-Mar-04 14:13
Re: Out of Africa....? 301 fiascohoho 26-Mar-04 04:54
Re: Out of Africa....? 328 fiascohoho 31-Mar-04 05:13
Re: hyper-diaper-diffusion..., 330 fiascohoho 27-Mar-04 06:33
Re: hyper-diaper-diffusion..., 623 Nolondil 27-Mar-04 20:03
Re: hyper-diaper-diffusion..., 316 fiascohoho 28-Mar-04 00:10
Re: diffusion/hyper 341 Alex S 29-Mar-04 17:01
Re: diffusion/hyper 319 Alex S 31-Mar-04 14:07


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