Mysteries :
The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board).
Open mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you start with 2.5 tonnes, and then add shorter
> force vectors of half the angled rope pulls, then
> add the friction of what the rope is rubbing over,
> and the friction of the wood sleigh over the
> ground, I suspect it adds up to alot. Even if
> you come up with friction reducing lubricants and
> smooth surfaces, those lubricants have diminishing
> returns the more significant the friction force
> is. Another non 1:1 scalable factor in the
> analogy.
Exactly.
Another thing ramp believers ignore is that it's very difficult to pull a stone up a ramp and the steeper it is the harder it is. Draggers must walk on the surface so it can't be overly slick and if it isn't slick then the stones are difficult. You can make the ramp wider to accommodate a walking and dragging surface but now the massive ramps are larger yet.
It's very difficult to get a purchase for your feet to pull even if you have a high friction surface. On a ramp the ground drops off behind you so your feet go backward when you try to go forward. No matter how stinky your feet there is no way to overcome this fundamental problem. To move the stone you need more draggers and everything that entails. People who think six or eight ancient Egyptians dragged 2 1/2 ton stones up steep ramps have never tried to pull a 2 1/2 ton truck on level ground. "Uphill" is hard virtually by definition.
If stones had to be turned at corners then becomes almost impossible to keep the high friction path for draggers distinct from the slick path for stones. The paths intersect so at every corner the pullers twice hit points that are slick when the stone hits a spot that is high friction. The whole idea of ramps is absurd and the idea it's the only way they could have built pyramids is "ridiculous on steroids".
Pulling stones from the top reduces friction to near zero and provides the workers a nice flat surface to work from. It allows men to take their time and enjoy the work rather than risking life and limb on ramps laden not with bedroom furniture as Egyptologists suggest but rather with threats to life and limb in the brutal working conditions and millions upon millions of pinch points.
Even if the evidence favored ramps I'd be inclined to say the evidence is a red herring and they mustta done it the logical way; pulling stones up the side. But the evidence does not favor ramps. The evidence rules out the possibility they used ramps. There was never any logic or substance for the contention they could only have used ramps.
There were no ramps except in the minds of Egyptologists. This came to be because 19th century Egyptologists couldn't believe the ancestors of modern Egyptians could come up with an easier means than dragging stones. But this is the 21st century and it's unfair to blame people 200 years ago for our blindness and beliefs. It's high time to change our beliefs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05-Mar-20 16:35 by cladking.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you start with 2.5 tonnes, and then add shorter
> force vectors of half the angled rope pulls, then
> add the friction of what the rope is rubbing over,
> and the friction of the wood sleigh over the
> ground, I suspect it adds up to alot. Even if
> you come up with friction reducing lubricants and
> smooth surfaces, those lubricants have diminishing
> returns the more significant the friction force
> is. Another non 1:1 scalable factor in the
> analogy.
Exactly.
Another thing ramp believers ignore is that it's very difficult to pull a stone up a ramp and the steeper it is the harder it is. Draggers must walk on the surface so it can't be overly slick and if it isn't slick then the stones are difficult. You can make the ramp wider to accommodate a walking and dragging surface but now the massive ramps are larger yet.
It's very difficult to get a purchase for your feet to pull even if you have a high friction surface. On a ramp the ground drops off behind you so your feet go backward when you try to go forward. No matter how stinky your feet there is no way to overcome this fundamental problem. To move the stone you need more draggers and everything that entails. People who think six or eight ancient Egyptians dragged 2 1/2 ton stones up steep ramps have never tried to pull a 2 1/2 ton truck on level ground. "Uphill" is hard virtually by definition.
If stones had to be turned at corners then becomes almost impossible to keep the high friction path for draggers distinct from the slick path for stones. The paths intersect so at every corner the pullers twice hit points that are slick when the stone hits a spot that is high friction. The whole idea of ramps is absurd and the idea it's the only way they could have built pyramids is "ridiculous on steroids".
Pulling stones from the top reduces friction to near zero and provides the workers a nice flat surface to work from. It allows men to take their time and enjoy the work rather than risking life and limb on ramps laden not with bedroom furniture as Egyptologists suggest but rather with threats to life and limb in the brutal working conditions and millions upon millions of pinch points.
Even if the evidence favored ramps I'd be inclined to say the evidence is a red herring and they mustta done it the logical way; pulling stones up the side. But the evidence does not favor ramps. The evidence rules out the possibility they used ramps. There was never any logic or substance for the contention they could only have used ramps.
There were no ramps except in the minds of Egyptologists. This came to be because 19th century Egyptologists couldn't believe the ancestors of modern Egyptians could come up with an easier means than dragging stones. But this is the 21st century and it's unfair to blame people 200 years ago for our blindness and beliefs. It's high time to change our beliefs.
Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05-Mar-20 16:35 by cladking.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.