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Hello Thanos5150; you wrote: ”I may be wrong, but I do not find it a "big" stretch and ultimately a question worth asking. The 17th year cattle count is not required to be located at G1 and is noted mostly to highlight the folly of using two years for the cattle count instead of one which is just as well demonstrated at Dahshur.”

Giza and Dahshur may both be incorrect; Meidum may be the true nexus of Petrie’s confusion.

Quote

”With Cheops we are faced with no real discrepancy: the Turin Papyrus gives 23 years whereas the records reach up to the 12th (An example of a 17th count was argued by Petrie; however, it is probable that he was confused on this matter)20. In this case one may argue for a biennial system. After all, this is a new reign and the practices of Snefru need not have been followed. It is unfortunate that Cairo Fragment No. 2 of the Annals does not preserve any dates and that none of the nine listed cases present a “year after the Xth occurrence” or any connection with cattle.

20 A History of Egypt10, Lauer is adverse to this reference: in: BIFAO 73, 1973, 134, n. 1; cf. Stadelmann, in: MDAIK 43, 1986, 239. I suspect that Petrie confused his data and mixed the evidence from Snefru at Meidum (where there are cases of zp 17: nos. 13-15 in our list under that king) with that of Cheops at Giza



From the ”Addendum: Meidum Dates”:
Quote

”The following are the graffiti listed by Posener-Kriéger that should be added to our analysis. Those without dates are ignored. All relate to Snefru.

(5) Year of the 17 occurrence: Graffiti A 12-21 with A 23-26 to be added possibly A 22 is to be set in the same group.”

Source: “Dated Texts of the Old Kingdom”, Anthony Spalinger, Studien zur Altägyptischen Kultur © 1994, Pages 285, 318 and 319.


Note to the serious student: The whole of the article contains scholarly merit. In particular, the Addendum contains cogent discourse ”concerning the intricate question of regnal year dating in the Old Kingdom”, amplifying a transitional intercalation from the ‘cattle count’, while recognizing the import of the maturing organizational bureaucracy.



Dr. Troglodyte


“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?“ - Decimus Junius Juvenalis
Η άγνοια είναι η μητέρα του μύθου και του μυστηρίου.


“Numero, Pondere et Mensura“


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 1796 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 11:13
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 387 Barbelo 30-Oct-19 11:33
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 359 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 13:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 219 Barbelo 30-Oct-19 20:28
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 306 Thanos5150 30-Oct-19 16:10
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 285 Warwick 30-Oct-19 20:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 330 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 20:57
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 246 Corpuscles 31-Oct-19 01:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 289 Martin Stower 31-Oct-19 11:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 175 Merrell 22-Nov-19 16:09
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 277 Martin Stower 31-Oct-19 13:34
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 269 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 00:24
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 215 Thanos5150 19-Nov-19 16:55
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 177 engbren 21-Nov-19 11:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 197 Martin Stower 21-Nov-19 14:45
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 164 engbren 22-Nov-19 11:05
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 179 Martin Stower 22-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 168 Hanslune 22-Nov-19 15:32
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 193 sfbey 22-Nov-19 18:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 162 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 01:19
2 responces . . 174 Warwick 22-Nov-19 19:32
Re: 2 responces . . 193 cladking 22-Nov-19 21:14
Re: 2 responces . . 197 Martin Stower 22-Nov-19 21:29
Re: 2 responces . . 266 cladking 23-Nov-19 02:14
Deleted the same attempts to get people to respond to him 176 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 04:04
Ah, how rare Cladking hijacking a thread 158 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 01:18
Re: 2 responces . . 166 Mayavitch 26-Nov-19 22:33
Re: 2 responces . . 134 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 172 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 17:50
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 176 Merrell 24-Nov-19 10:12
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 202 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 13:18
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 189 Thanos5150 24-Nov-19 14:28
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 163 Warwick 24-Nov-19 19:54
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 171 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 02:26
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 153 engbren 25-Nov-19 06:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 166 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 16:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 175 cladking 25-Nov-19 17:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 242 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 161 Merrell 25-Nov-19 09:54
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 182 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 16:50
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 163 Merrell 25-Nov-19 22:45
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 165 Merrell 26-Nov-19 17:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 187 Thanos5150 27-Nov-19 06:19
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Corpuscles 28-Nov-19 05:47
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 146 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 17:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 153 Merrell 28-Nov-19 10:25
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 144 Merrell 28-Nov-19 14:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 153 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 17:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 150 Merrell 28-Nov-19 17:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 145 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 18:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 149 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 20:20
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 144 Corpuscles 28-Nov-19 21:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 159 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 00:19
Petrie’s Confusion Problem 210 Dr. Troglodyte 01-Dec-19 19:54
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 212 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 23:51
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 142 Merrell 02-Dec-19 10:03
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 175 Martin Stower 02-Dec-19 14:38
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 145 Thanos5150 03-Dec-19 16:54
as far as that goes..... 129 Warwick 03-Dec-19 18:20
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 184 Martin Stower 03-Dec-19 19:32
Tunnel vision 574 Warwick 04-Dec-19 20:18
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 167 Martin Stower 28-Nov-19 21:05
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 142 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 21:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 189 Martin Stower 28-Nov-19 22:28
“. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 230 Martin Stower 29-Nov-19 14:50
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 147 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 19:03
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 140 Merrell 29-Nov-19 20:44
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 148 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 01:02
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 146 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 05:31
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 157 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 06:11
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 156 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 12:49
From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 175 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 14:38
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 143 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 16:34
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 149 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 16:57
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 147 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 17:43
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 139 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 18:31
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 159 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 18:46
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 144 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 18:55
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 162 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 19:18
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 130 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 23:04
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 145 Merrell 30-Nov-19 21:22
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 132 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 23:12
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 138 Thanos5150 01-Dec-19 00:25
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 155 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 00:54
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 179 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 01:37
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 160 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 14:18
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 159 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 14:55
Hawass: other possible slips 149 Merrell 01-Dec-19 15:28
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 149 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 19:16
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 127 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 23:32
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 151 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 16:38
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 124 Merrell 30-Nov-19 18:14
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 194 Merrell 25-Nov-19 23:57
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 159 Thanos5150 26-Nov-19 16:38
Infrastructure . 169 Warwick 26-Nov-19 17:29
What Irony? n/t 155 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:05
do TRY being objective 141 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:14
Re: do TRY being objective 163 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:25
so you choose subjective 154 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:49
Re: so you choose subjective 153 cladking 26-Nov-19 23:17
Re: so you choose subjective 168 Warwick 27-Nov-19 02:51
So You Evade the Subject Again. 225 cladking 27-Nov-19 03:43
Re: So You Evade the Subject Again. 132 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:29
Egyptologists Couldn't Find a Ramp with Both Hands. 131 cladking 27-Nov-19 18:11
Re: Egyptologists Couldn't Find a Ramp with Both Hands. 146 Warwick 27-Nov-19 18:21
Cladking hijacks another thread and makes it about ramps - again 121 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 23:39
Cladking logic: If you disagree with me you are an Egyptologist! 166 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 12:58
Re: Cladking logic: If you disagree with me you are an Egyptologist! 130 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:41
A better idea 136 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 18:12
New from K-tel 145 Warwick 27-Nov-19 18:16
Re: New from K-tel 137 Hanslune 28-Nov-19 00:08
Re: New from K-tel 164 Lee McGiffen 28-Nov-19 01:46
Re: New from K-tel 266 cladking 28-Nov-19 01:57
Re: New from K-tel 138 Hanslune 28-Nov-19 16:40
Putting this to bed 133 Warwick 28-Nov-19 18:11
Re: so you choose subjective 135 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 19:11
Re: so you choose subjective 128 Warwick 28-Nov-19 20:44
Classic unintended comedy! 184 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 13:04
Re: Infrastructure . 153 Thanos5150 27-Nov-19 00:15
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 157 Merrell 26-Nov-19 18:56
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 139 Merrell 28-Nov-19 22:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 152 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 121 Merrell 29-Nov-19 20:26
Ahket . 168 Warwick 25-Nov-19 17:56
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 205 Hanslune 24-Nov-19 16:27
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 00:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 153 Hanslune 25-Nov-19 00:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 161 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 02:08
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 156 Hanslune 25-Nov-19 05:49
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 164 Merrell 25-Nov-19 10:12
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 130 seasmith 25-Nov-19 22:09
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 129 Warwick 25-Nov-19 22:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 135 Merrell 25-Nov-19 22:35
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 131 seasmith 25-Nov-19 23:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 127 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:23
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 153 Martin Stower 26-Nov-19 14:35
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 143 seasmith 27-Nov-19 02:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 148 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 16:59
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 162 Thanos5150 24-Nov-19 14:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 160 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:21
not Graffiti 164 Warwick 24-Nov-19 19:47
Re: not Graffiti 170 Hanslune 24-Nov-19 21:51
Monkey see.. 180 Warwick 24-Nov-19 23:40
Re: not Graffiti 192 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 21:58
Please, for God’s sake, . . . 822 Martin Stower 27-Nov-19 19:52
Mods can you stop Cladking from hijacking this thread? 173 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 23:41
Mod Warning > General OP Hijacking 213 Dr. Troglodyte 28-Nov-19 17:21


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