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Hello Thanos5150; you wrote: ”I may be wrong, but I do not find it a "big" stretch and ultimately a question worth asking. The 17th year cattle count is not required to be located at G1 and is noted mostly to highlight the folly of using two years for the cattle count instead of one which is just as well demonstrated at Dahshur.”

Giza and Dahshur may both be incorrect; Meidum may be the true nexus of Petrie’s confusion.

Quote

”With Cheops we are faced with no real discrepancy: the Turin Papyrus gives 23 years whereas the records reach up to the 12th (An example of a 17th count was argued by Petrie; however, it is probable that he was confused on this matter)20. In this case one may argue for a biennial system. After all, this is a new reign and the practices of Snefru need not have been followed. It is unfortunate that Cairo Fragment No. 2 of the Annals does not preserve any dates and that none of the nine listed cases present a “year after the Xth occurrence” or any connection with cattle.

20 A History of Egypt10, Lauer is adverse to this reference: in: BIFAO 73, 1973, 134, n. 1; cf. Stadelmann, in: MDAIK 43, 1986, 239. I suspect that Petrie confused his data and mixed the evidence from Snefru at Meidum (where there are cases of zp 17: nos. 13-15 in our list under that king) with that of Cheops at Giza



From the ”Addendum: Meidum Dates”:
Quote

”The following are the graffiti listed by Posener-Kriéger that should be added to our analysis. Those without dates are ignored. All relate to Snefru.

(5) Year of the 17 occurrence: Graffiti A 12-21 with A 23-26 to be added possibly A 22 is to be set in the same group.”

Source: “Dated Texts of the Old Kingdom”, Anthony Spalinger, Studien zur Altägyptischen Kultur © 1994, Pages 285, 318 and 319.


Note to the serious student: The whole of the article contains scholarly merit. In particular, the Addendum contains cogent discourse ”concerning the intricate question of regnal year dating in the Old Kingdom”, amplifying a transitional intercalation from the ‘cattle count’, while recognizing the import of the maturing organizational bureaucracy.



Dr. Troglodyte


“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?“ - Decimus Junius Juvenalis
Η άγνοια είναι η μητέρα του μύθου και του μυστηρίου.


“Numero, Pondere et Mensura“


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 1786 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 11:13
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 384 Barbelo 30-Oct-19 11:33
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 353 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 13:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 213 Barbelo 30-Oct-19 20:28
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 304 Thanos5150 30-Oct-19 16:10
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 279 Warwick 30-Oct-19 20:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 326 Martin Stower 30-Oct-19 20:57
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 241 Corpuscles 31-Oct-19 01:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 282 Martin Stower 31-Oct-19 11:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 169 Merrell 22-Nov-19 16:09
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 274 Martin Stower 31-Oct-19 13:34
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 263 PB Bytes 19-Nov-19 00:24
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 211 Thanos5150 19-Nov-19 16:55
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 173 engbren 21-Nov-19 11:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 193 Martin Stower 21-Nov-19 14:45
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 161 engbren 22-Nov-19 11:05
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 176 Martin Stower 22-Nov-19 15:06
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 165 Hanslune 22-Nov-19 15:32
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 189 sfbey 22-Nov-19 18:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 01:19
2 responces . . 171 Warwick 22-Nov-19 19:32
Re: 2 responces . . 190 cladking 22-Nov-19 21:14
Re: 2 responces . . 193 Martin Stower 22-Nov-19 21:29
Re: 2 responces . . 257 cladking 23-Nov-19 02:14
Deleted the same attempts to get people to respond to him 173 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 04:04
Ah, how rare Cladking hijacking a thread 154 Hanslune 23-Nov-19 01:18
Re: 2 responces . . 163 Mayavitch 26-Nov-19 22:33
Re: 2 responces . . 130 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 170 PB Bytes 23-Nov-19 17:50
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 172 Merrell 24-Nov-19 10:12
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 198 Lee McGiffen 24-Nov-19 13:18
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 185 Thanos5150 24-Nov-19 14:28
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Warwick 24-Nov-19 19:54
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 168 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 02:26
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 149 engbren 25-Nov-19 06:36
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 162 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 16:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 173 cladking 25-Nov-19 17:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 238 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:02
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Merrell 25-Nov-19 09:54
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 178 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 16:50
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 161 Merrell 25-Nov-19 22:45
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 160 Merrell 26-Nov-19 17:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 180 Thanos5150 27-Nov-19 06:19
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 156 Corpuscles 28-Nov-19 05:47
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 143 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 17:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 150 Merrell 28-Nov-19 10:25
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 142 Merrell 28-Nov-19 14:01
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 149 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 17:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 148 Merrell 28-Nov-19 17:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 143 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 18:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 146 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 20:20
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 139 Corpuscles 28-Nov-19 21:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 156 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 00:19
Petrie’s Confusion Problem 204 Dr. Troglodyte 01-Dec-19 19:54
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 207 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 23:51
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 138 Merrell 02-Dec-19 10:03
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 172 Martin Stower 02-Dec-19 14:38
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 142 Thanos5150 03-Dec-19 16:54
as far as that goes..... 126 Warwick 03-Dec-19 18:20
Re: Petrie’s Confusion Problem 179 Martin Stower 03-Dec-19 19:32
Tunnel vision 557 Warwick 04-Dec-19 20:18
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 162 Martin Stower 28-Nov-19 21:05
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 139 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 21:51
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 183 Martin Stower 28-Nov-19 22:28
“. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 223 Martin Stower 29-Nov-19 14:50
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 145 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 19:03
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 138 Merrell 29-Nov-19 20:44
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 144 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 01:02
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 144 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 05:31
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 154 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 06:11
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 150 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 12:49
From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 169 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 14:38
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 140 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 16:34
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 146 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 16:57
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 143 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 17:43
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 136 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 18:31
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 153 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 18:46
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 141 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 18:55
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 155 Martin Stower 30-Nov-19 19:18
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 126 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 23:04
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 142 Merrell 30-Nov-19 21:22
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 130 Corpuscles 30-Nov-19 23:12
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 136 Thanos5150 01-Dec-19 00:25
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 150 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 00:54
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 175 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 01:37
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 156 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 14:18
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 154 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 14:55
Hawass: other possible slips 145 Merrell 01-Dec-19 15:28
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 146 Martin Stower 01-Dec-19 19:16
Re: From the site of Andrew Bayuk (“Guardian”) 123 Corpuscles 01-Dec-19 23:32
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 147 Thanos5150 30-Nov-19 16:38
Re: “. . . lost until Zahi Hawass found it . . .” 121 Merrell 30-Nov-19 18:14
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 189 Merrell 25-Nov-19 23:57
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 156 Thanos5150 26-Nov-19 16:38
Infrastructure . 163 Warwick 26-Nov-19 17:29
What Irony? n/t 150 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:05
do TRY being objective 136 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:14
Re: do TRY being objective 158 cladking 26-Nov-19 20:25
so you choose subjective 150 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:49
Re: so you choose subjective 151 cladking 26-Nov-19 23:17
Re: so you choose subjective 165 Warwick 27-Nov-19 02:51
So You Evade the Subject Again. 222 cladking 27-Nov-19 03:43
Re: So You Evade the Subject Again. 127 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:29
Egyptologists Couldn't Find a Ramp with Both Hands. 128 cladking 27-Nov-19 18:11
Re: Egyptologists Couldn't Find a Ramp with Both Hands. 142 Warwick 27-Nov-19 18:21
Cladking hijacks another thread and makes it about ramps - again 119 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 23:39
Cladking logic: If you disagree with me you are an Egyptologist! 163 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 12:58
Re: Cladking logic: If you disagree with me you are an Egyptologist! 127 Warwick 27-Nov-19 17:41
A better idea 130 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 18:12
New from K-tel 142 Warwick 27-Nov-19 18:16
Re: New from K-tel 135 Hanslune 28-Nov-19 00:08
Re: New from K-tel 161 Lee McGiffen 28-Nov-19 01:46
Re: New from K-tel 264 cladking 28-Nov-19 01:57
Re: New from K-tel 135 Hanslune 28-Nov-19 16:40
Putting this to bed 130 Warwick 28-Nov-19 18:11
Re: so you choose subjective 131 Thanos5150 28-Nov-19 19:11
Re: so you choose subjective 123 Warwick 28-Nov-19 20:44
Classic unintended comedy! 180 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 13:04
Re: Infrastructure . 148 Thanos5150 27-Nov-19 00:15
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 155 Merrell 26-Nov-19 18:56
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 135 Merrell 28-Nov-19 22:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 149 Thanos5150 29-Nov-19 03:37
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 118 Merrell 29-Nov-19 20:26
Ahket . 165 Warwick 25-Nov-19 17:56
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 199 Hanslune 24-Nov-19 16:27
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 155 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 00:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 148 Hanslune 25-Nov-19 00:53
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 158 Thanos5150 25-Nov-19 02:08
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 149 Hanslune 25-Nov-19 05:49
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 159 Merrell 25-Nov-19 10:12
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 128 seasmith 25-Nov-19 22:09
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 127 Warwick 25-Nov-19 22:31
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 133 Merrell 25-Nov-19 22:35
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 129 seasmith 25-Nov-19 23:11
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 123 Warwick 26-Nov-19 20:23
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 151 Martin Stower 26-Nov-19 14:35
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 139 seasmith 27-Nov-19 02:48
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 143 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 16:59
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 160 Thanos5150 24-Nov-19 14:07
Re: Mainstream endorsement of Creighton’s HOAX . . . 157 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 17:21
not Graffiti 161 Warwick 24-Nov-19 19:47
Re: not Graffiti 167 Hanslune 24-Nov-19 21:51
Monkey see.. 175 Warwick 24-Nov-19 23:40
Re: not Graffiti 188 PB Bytes 24-Nov-19 21:58
Please, for God’s sake, . . . 819 Martin Stower 27-Nov-19 19:52
Mods can you stop Cladking from hijacking this thread? 169 Hanslune 27-Nov-19 23:41
Mod Warning > General OP Hijacking 207 Dr. Troglodyte 28-Nov-19 17:21


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