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Hi BC

Another way of possibly looking at such a statement - the 12 and 24 - plays with Mercator Projection.

That is defined by the wonder of having spherical observation projected upon 2D presentation, where the horizontal 360deg relates to the vertical 180deg, giving a perfect square incorporating 360deg all over...if you realize how the two ends of the horizontal are actually the same meridian. Stellarium will offer the views for you.

Cylinder Projection just doesn't do it right.

Of course, that takes 'squaring the circle' to its true meaning...

Does a caterpillar know it will turn into a butterfly?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 6059 engbren 25-Jul-19 13:03
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 692 cladking 25-Jul-19 14:04
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 553 engbren 28-Jul-19 08:05
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 500 engbren 26-Jul-19 15:04
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 467 engbren 01-Aug-19 13:52
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 459 engbren 02-Aug-19 06:37
Re: Unlocking the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 500 engbren 28-Jul-19 12:28
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 545 GramPong 02-Aug-19 14:33
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 513 engbren 03-Aug-19 05:33
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 468 GramPong 03-Aug-19 13:41
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 460 engbren 04-Aug-19 04:41
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 469 GramPong 04-Aug-19 12:30
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 487 engbren 04-Aug-19 23:01
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 459 GramPong 05-Aug-19 07:49
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 542 engbren 05-Aug-19 10:15
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 489 engbren 07-Aug-19 13:16
Unlocking the punch-line 592 hendrik dirker 10-Aug-19 08:59
Re: Unlocking the punch-line 517 engbren 10-Aug-19 09:35
Re: Unlocking the punch-line 451 engbren 11-Aug-19 23:00
Re: Unlocking the punch-line 490 hendrik dirker 12-Aug-19 14:23
Re: Unlocking the punch-line 458 engbren 12-Aug-19 22:40
The plot & motive 477 hendrik dirker 13-Aug-19 10:56
Re: The plot & motive 446 engbren 13-Aug-19 12:10
Re: The plot & motive 545 hendrik dirker 13-Aug-19 14:04
Re: The plot & motive 467 engbren 13-Aug-19 23:04
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus story of the Wonder of Djadjaemankh 458 engbren 12-Aug-19 13:17
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 559 engbren 15-Aug-19 12:20
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 484 engbren 19-Aug-19 11:50
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 487 engbren 22-Aug-19 09:18
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 472 Spiros 23-Aug-19 14:56
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 444 engbren 23-Aug-19 23:41
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 461 Spiros 24-Aug-19 06:16
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 467 engbren 24-Aug-19 10:52
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 451 Spiros 26-Aug-19 09:28
Egyptian seasons in the Phaistos disk 442 Spiros 26-Aug-19 09:55
Is Sopdet Involved? 427 engbren 13-Sep-19 11:45
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 427 Spiros 13-Sep-19 13:47
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 494 engbren 13-Sep-19 23:54
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 431 Spiros 15-Sep-19 06:54
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 428 engbren 16-Sep-19 12:16
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 412 Glass Jigsaw 28-Sep-19 17:54
Re: Is Sopdet Involved? 424 engbren 29-Sep-19 09:08
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 483 engbren 27-Aug-19 08:07
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 453 Spiros 29-Aug-19 05:56
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 446 engbren 29-Aug-19 08:46
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 416 Spiros 07-Sep-19 04:07
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 406 engbren 08-Sep-19 02:32
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 402 Spiros 08-Sep-19 14:18
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 431 engbren 28-Aug-19 13:57
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 455 engbren 30-Aug-19 13:06
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 433 engbren 31-Aug-19 12:35
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 462 Spiros 31-Aug-19 19:21
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 412 engbren 04-Sep-19 13:49
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 410 Spiros 07-Sep-19 04:36
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 423 engbren 07-Sep-19 11:35
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 409 Spiros 08-Sep-19 14:50
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 394 engbren 27-Oct-19 12:21
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 398 Spiros 29-Oct-19 13:20
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 414 engbren 29-Oct-19 19:21
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 377 Spiros 30-Oct-19 18:22
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 372 engbren 30-Oct-19 19:29
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 402 Spiros 30-Oct-19 19:59
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 403 Glass Jigsaw 30-Oct-19 13:00
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 402 Spiros 31-Oct-19 15:19
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 410 Glass Jigsaw 31-Oct-19 16:16
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 421 drew 05-Sep-19 04:06
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 460 Spiros 05-Sep-19 06:31
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 454 engbren 05-Sep-19 09:26
Re: 1/14 of Osiris 458 drew 06-Sep-19 00:11
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 415 Spiros 07-Sep-19 05:03
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 408 engbren 06-Sep-19 00:44
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 436 drew 06-Sep-19 01:47
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 429 engbren 06-Sep-19 07:45
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 424 drew 06-Sep-19 08:14
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 409 engbren 06-Sep-19 08:39
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 430 engbren 06-Sep-19 09:02
The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 605 engbren 09-Sep-19 12:21
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 451 Spiros 09-Sep-19 15:40
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 476 Glass Jigsaw 09-Sep-19 20:13
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 459 engbren 10-Sep-19 05:52
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 424 Glass Jigsaw 10-Sep-19 10:54
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 405 engbren 11-Sep-19 13:14
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 441 Glass Jigsaw 11-Sep-19 14:37
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 427 drew 13-Sep-19 04:04
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 427 engbren 13-Sep-19 09:24
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 419 drew 13-Sep-19 10:46
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 426 Glass Jigsaw 13-Sep-19 11:21
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 419 drew 13-Sep-19 11:52
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 430 Glass Jigsaw 13-Sep-19 12:09
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 418 engbren 22-Sep-19 12:32
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 408 cladking 22-Sep-19 13:15
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 457 Glass Jigsaw 22-Sep-19 14:02
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 448 engbren 23-Sep-19 00:42
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 440 Spiros 23-Sep-19 02:54
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 418 Glass Jigsaw 23-Sep-19 10:43
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 424 Spiros 23-Sep-19 13:20
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 421 Glass Jigsaw 23-Sep-19 13:58
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 410 Spiros 23-Sep-19 17:30
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 457 Glass Jigsaw 23-Sep-19 23:51
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 405 Spiros 24-Sep-19 17:41
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 439 Glass Jigsaw 24-Sep-19 22:26
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 428 Spiros 25-Sep-19 13:39
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 447 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 15:15
The Age of Pisces 676 hendrik dirker 28-Sep-19 08:36
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 435 drew 25-Sep-19 00:49
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 416 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 11:34
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 417 Glass Jigsaw 25-Sep-19 12:29
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 449 engbren 22-Oct-19 11:07
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 406 Glass Jigsaw 22-Oct-19 14:18
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 383 engbren 25-Oct-19 11:06
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 404 drew 23-Oct-19 23:51
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 386 Glass Jigsaw 24-Oct-19 00:20
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 431 engbren 25-Oct-19 05:57
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 380 engbren 28-Oct-19 20:48
Re: The Age of Pisces or Aquarius? 375 Glass Jigsaw 28-Oct-19 23:23
Astrological signs with human and creature idioms.... 390 Itatw70s 02-Nov-19 00:15
Re: Astrological signs with human and creature idioms.... 409 Glass Jigsaw 02-Nov-19 01:35
Re: Astrological signs with human and creature idioms.... 409 Itatw70s 02-Nov-19 13:45
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 487 Glass Jigsaw 07-Sep-19 12:03
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 489 cladking 07-Sep-19 14:07
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 378 Itatw70s 02-Nov-19 14:20
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 393 Glass Jigsaw 02-Nov-19 14:56
Khnum Khufu 429 engbren 08-Sep-19 13:11
Re: Khnum Khufu 412 Spiros 08-Sep-19 14:46
Trimming away unnecessary observations... 450 drew 09-Sep-19 00:30
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 437 drew 11-Sep-19 03:31
The moon and number 41 456 engbren 11-Sep-19 13:19
Re: The moon and number 41 394 thinkitover 23-Oct-19 05:48
Re: The moon and number 41 392 Glass Jigsaw 23-Oct-19 16:18
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 400 engbren 24-Oct-19 09:51
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 383 Glass Jigsaw 24-Oct-19 11:32
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 412 engbren 25-Oct-19 03:27
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 411 gulsbo 25-Oct-19 19:43
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 449 engbren 29-Oct-19 08:55
Some Random Ideas... 395 thinkitover 01-Nov-19 00:19
Re: Some Random Ideas... 369 engbren 03-Nov-19 21:47
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 418 engbren 04-Nov-19 12:26
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 673 engbren 16-Nov-19 12:02
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 385 Glass Jigsaw 27-Nov-19 00:59
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 389 Sirfiroth 27-Nov-19 04:47
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 383 magisterchessmutt 27-Nov-19 05:45
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 399 Sirfiroth 27-Nov-19 17:34
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 357 magisterchessmutt 28-Nov-19 00:38
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 362 Sirfiroth 28-Nov-19 01:29
Deleted n/t 358 cladking 27-Nov-19 12:33
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 391 engbren 02-Dec-19 12:09
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 376 Thanos5150 06-Dec-19 15:52
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 360 engbren 07-Dec-19 09:22
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 380 Spiros 07-Dec-19 21:54
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 370 engbren 12-Dec-19 11:36
Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 336 engbren 17-Dec-19 09:51
Re: Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 329 engbren 19-Dec-19 20:23
Re: Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 346 Glass Jigsaw 20-Dec-19 03:14
Re: Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 358 Spiros 23-Dec-19 22:27
Re: Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 297 engbren 29-Dec-19 04:58
Re: Diameter of Alhena vs Coffer volume sphere theory 259 engbren 08-Jan-20 20:01
In the Northern Skies 310 engbren 30-Dec-19 02:26
Re: In the Northern Skies 308 engbren 30-Dec-19 10:39
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 302 engbren 09-Jan-20 12:46
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 333 engbren 10-Jan-20 13:30
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 299 Spiros 12-Jan-20 19:32
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 314 Thanos5150 13-Jan-20 00:03
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 294 Spiros 15-Jan-20 13:32
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 318 engbren 15-Jan-20 11:08
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 328 Spiros 15-Jan-20 19:16
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 334 engbren 17-Jan-20 09:34
On the identity of the Children 309 engbren 19-Jan-20 08:15
Re: On the identity of the Children 293 Glass Jigsaw 19-Jan-20 20:21
Speculation on the offerings 305 engbren 21-Jan-20 12:26
Re: Speculation on the offerings 299 Glass Jigsaw 21-Jan-20 13:04
Not enough here to connect a date! Massive Speculation 304 Sirhope 22-Jan-20 02:14
Re: Not enough here to connect a date! Massive Speculation 285 engbren 23-Jan-20 03:25
The Egyptian Civil Calendar 295 engbren 27-Jan-20 03:05
Re: The Egyptian Civil Calendar 305 engbren 28-Jan-20 11:57
Re: The Egyptian Civil Calendar 304 Spiros 29-Jan-20 15:20
Re: The Egyptian Civil Calendar 283 engbren 30-Jan-20 12:11
Re: The Egyptian Civil Calendar 298 Spiros 01-Feb-20 15:07
Re: The Egyptian Civil Calendar 275 engbren 02-Feb-20 13:31
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 283 engbren 31-Jan-20 09:24
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 272 engbren 08-Feb-20 07:21
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 283 Spiros 08-Feb-20 22:37
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 281 engbren 10-Feb-20 06:43
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 282 engbren 13-Feb-20 13:03
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 286 Manu 13-Feb-20 16:58
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 254 engbren 14-Feb-20 10:03
On the Provions of Vegetables to Djedi 283 engbren 05-Feb-20 07:00
The house of Reusre 306 engbren 06-Feb-20 08:42
Re: The house of Reusre 300 hendrik dirker 06-Feb-20 12:54
Re: The house of Reusre 309 engbren 07-Feb-20 05:38
Re: The house of Reusre 286 engbren 14-Feb-20 10:49
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 282 engbren 15-Feb-20 09:14
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 280 Spiros 16-Feb-20 19:32
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 265 Spiros 17-Feb-20 01:21
The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 311 engbren 17-Feb-20 08:51
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 330 Spiros 17-Feb-20 19:13
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 312 engbren 18-Feb-20 09:46
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 316 Glass Jigsaw 18-Feb-20 14:21
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 277 engbren 20-Feb-20 08:11
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 283 Glass Jigsaw 20-Feb-20 14:53
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 279 engbren 22-Feb-20 06:14
Re: The location of the pool and possibly Meskhenet 242 Spiros 07-Mar-20 22:47
Feedback 316 engbren 25-Feb-20 12:15
Re: Feedback 262 Mercurial 06-Mar-20 18:53
Re: Feedback 282 engbren 07-Mar-20 12:51
Re: Feedback 269 Mercurial 11-Mar-20 13:08
Re: Feedback 253 SandyJesse 08-Apr-20 21:49
Re: Feedback 266 Spiros 08-Apr-20 22:26
Re: Feedback 285 SandyJesse 08-Apr-20 23:00
Re: Feedback 276 engbren 30-Apr-20 14:31
Re: Feedback 237 Glass Jigsaw 11-May-20 17:58
Re: Feedback 232 Mercurial 12-May-20 10:23
Re: Feedback 231 Glass Jigsaw 13-May-20 12:13
Re: Feedback 267 cladking 06-Mar-20 20:28
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 333 engbren 01-Mar-20 01:38
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 246 engbren 06-Mar-20 10:26
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 259 Manu 06-Mar-20 10:55
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 263 engbren 07-Mar-20 04:21
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 264 Manu 07-Mar-20 07:45
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 253 engbren 07-Mar-20 12:33
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 253 Manu 08-Mar-20 00:17
Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 276 engbren 08-Mar-20 03:37
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 255 Manu 08-Mar-20 04:35
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 263 Glass Jigsaw 08-Mar-20 16:46
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 281 Manu 08-Mar-20 16:56
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 265 engbren 09-Mar-20 12:05
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 264 Glass Jigsaw 09-Mar-20 14:17
Re: Puchkov vs Belmonte, Spence and Rawlins and Pickering 279 Glass Jigsaw 09-Mar-20 14:29
Re: Unlocking the Westcar Papyrus with Egyptian Astronomy 263 Spiros 08-Mar-20 16:08
On the offerings 225 engbren 16-May-20 11:21
Re: On the offerings 243 Glass Jigsaw 16-May-20 13:02
Re: On the offerings 241 engbren 19-May-20 13:06
Re: On the offerings 222 Glass Jigsaw 19-May-20 18:22
Re: On the offerings 286 engbren 20-May-20 14:11
Re: On the offerings 262 engbren 22-May-20 13:55
Re: On the offerings 268 engbren 24-May-20 13:20
Is Khufu's Pyramid based on Saturn? 240 engbren 25-May-20 13:53
Re: On the offerings..Query 209 Glass Jigsaw 11-Jun-20 11:45
Re: On the offerings..Query 184 Mercurial 19-Jun-20 04:22
Re: On the offerings..Query 176 Glass Jigsaw 19-Jun-20 13:34
Re: On the offerings..Query 181 Mercurial 19-Jun-20 17:31
Re: On the offerings..Query Wallpaper 236 Glass Jigsaw 19-Jun-20 18:25


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