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Thanos writes “These connections are nearly 2,000yrs or more after the fact and have no relevance to Egyptian history prior to these times. The relationship with Harran, for example, was established in the 7th century BC when the Assyrians invaded and conquered Egypt. Harran itself was not even founded until the end of the 3rd millennium. The poorly documented Sabians, mostly from less than credible Arab accounts, are from AD times and the connection they have with Egypt is only by way of their alleged belief in some form of Hermeticism. The connection between Hermes and Thoth was made in the Ptolemaic Period and one imposed by the Greeks with no historical relevance prior to its invention.”

The founding of Harran at the end of the 3rd millennium? Do you know of a text that establishes plainly that Harran did not exist earlier than that? Of course, there is the mention of Harran in Genesis, not that it helps with a timeframe. There is a town not too far away from Harran, ancient Edessa now called Sanliurfa, that has some rather lovely gardens and an ongoing tradition concerning Abraham. Apparently, it was on a par with Harran for its teachings at one time – Arabian source in AD, of course.

The Syrian Ebla tablets gave Harran as ‘a crossroads for trade in the Middle East’ at around 2300 BC. It would have been active well before that if it was already known far and wide as a crossroads. In fact, its very position along with this description would no doubt mean that Harran was in full contact with Egypt in the 3rd millennium, if not before.

The Sumerian name in full comprising three symbols, HAR-RA-AN, is attested from around 2500 BC and given as ‘route, passage, path’, a description that corresponds well. I have found meanings pertaining to commerce and financial operations connected to the name at around 3000 BC. It would be very interesting to know of a document that claims its founding. Otherwise, it will be a matter of opinion and mine will continue to lean towards ‘an age-old place’.

As for Greek Hermes becoming associated with Egyptian Thoth, perhaps it was a decision made by those pesky Greeks…or not? Plagiarism? They had an awful lot of similar/identical attributes, that’s for sure – apart from the ibis head, of course. Might they all have come from a third, perhaps older source?

And, of course, you’re quite right: Second hand accounts of ancient events given by Arabs in the 1st millennium AD leaning on older accounts given by Christians who wrote that, according to their 'source', pagans claimed the ‘new’ name of Sabians – by which we are made to understand that they had no right to it beforehand - are indeed to be handled with caution. That also begs the question of who they claimed the real Sabians were, the ones that had already been mentioned several times in the Qu’ran by then and were apparently untouchable. Perhaps they existed elsewhere but, in the meantime, I have found at least four occurrences of the epithet SHA-BI in a totally pagan setting in a text that I daresay you will prefer to continue to call The Instructions of Shuruppak. It dates to 2600 BC and it’s first hand – no Arabs, no Christians, only me. That name, composed of two symbols, has more to do with beer than with stars, but one doesn’t rule out the other. It’s the name of HAR-RA-AN that proves the people to be astronomers, but also brewers… References available on demand.

But I'm still interested in the origin of that Great Pyramid ship and would prefer to stay with that subject.

Madeleine



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03-Mar-19 16:23 by MDaines.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 3829 MDaines 22-Feb-19 09:52
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 682 Thanos5150 22-Feb-19 16:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 524 MDaines 23-Feb-19 18:01
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 518 Thanos5150 24-Feb-19 03:06
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 488 Eddie Larry 22-Feb-19 18:39
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 524 cladking 22-Feb-19 20:12
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 503 MDaines 23-Feb-19 07:40
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 443 cladking 23-Feb-19 14:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 466 MDaines 23-Feb-19 15:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 394 cladking 02-Mar-19 16:31
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 435 Eddie Larry 23-Feb-19 16:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 436 Spiros 25-Feb-19 00:41
On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 513 MDaines 25-Feb-19 14:49
Re: On the subject of Zechariah Sitchin 404 Spiros 04-Mar-19 01:11
The Exalted Sumero-Greek EN 417 MDaines 04-Mar-19 18:24
A Big Ask 491 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 01:27
Re: A Big Ask 404 MDaines 26-Feb-19 14:25
Re: A Big Ask 504 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Feb-19 17:14
Re: A Big Ask 389 MDaines 26-Feb-19 19:30
Re: A Big Ask 396 Barbelo 26-Feb-19 20:23
Re: A Big Ask 408 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:13
Re: A Big Ask 342 Barbelo 27-Feb-19 20:28
Re: A Big Ask 356 MDaines 28-Feb-19 14:05
Re: A Big Ask 380 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 19:59
Re: A Big Ask 423 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 00:46
Re: A Big Ask 391 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 01:19
Re: A Big Ask 432 Thanos5150 01-Mar-19 05:20
Re: A Weird Ask 432 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 11:13
Re: A Weird Ask 455 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 05:12
Re: A Weird Ask 556 Barbelo 02-Mar-19 07:06
Re: A Big Ask 393 MDaines 01-Mar-19 18:35
Re: A Big Ask 375 Barbelo 01-Mar-19 21:42
Re: A Big Ask 409 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 03:33
Re: A Big Ask 385 Thanos5150 28-Feb-19 17:11
Re: A Big Ask 384 MDaines 28-Feb-19 18:08
Heliopolis 512 Barbelo 28-Feb-19 20:18
Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 474 Dr. Troglodyte 04-Mar-19 23:56
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 420 MDaines 10-Mar-19 14:41
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 406 Dr. Troglodyte 12-Mar-19 00:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 363 MDaines 15-Mar-19 07:17
Re: Midpoint Sunrise-Sunset 464 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Mar-19 16:41
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 470 molder 26-Feb-19 21:23
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 425 MDaines 27-Feb-19 12:06
Three Wise Men 423 MDaines 02-Mar-19 15:31
Re: Three Wise Men 390 Thanos5150 02-Mar-19 17:05
Harran and the Sabians 488 MDaines 03-Mar-19 08:33
Re: Harran and the Sabians 543 Thanos5150 03-Mar-19 16:40
Re: Harran and the Sabians 416 MDaines 03-Mar-19 19:24
Re: Harran and the Sabians 384 Thanos5150 06-Mar-19 01:50
Re: Harran and the Sabians 360 MDaines 06-Mar-19 08:22
Re: Harran and the Sabians 357 Thanos5150 07-Mar-19 02:09
Re: Harran and the Sabians 387 MDaines 07-Mar-19 08:20
On the subject of Ebla and the Feather of Truth 382 MDaines 08-Mar-19 08:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 445 Broker 14-Mar-19 03:25
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 358 MDaines 17-Mar-19 09:11
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 373 SandyJesse 18-Apr-19 04:33
Celestial navigation and the ship 357 MDaines 23-Apr-19 07:21
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 362 SandyJesse 25-Apr-19 01:50
Re: Celestial navigation and the ship 403 SandyJesse 30-Apr-19 05:16
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 344 seasmith 03-May-19 22:24
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 317 MDaines 04-May-19 08:28
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 399 seasmith 05-May-19 01:39
BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 389 MDaines 09-May-19 09:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 365 SandyJesse 12-May-19 09:58
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 314 MDaines 12-May-19 10:22
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 313 SandyJesse 14-May-19 05:21
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 289 MDaines 14-May-19 07:46
Re: BEFORE BABEL The Crystal Tongue 319 SandyJesse 16-May-19 03:19
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 286 drew 15-May-19 01:21
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 271 Barbelo 15-May-19 10:48
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 321 drew 15-May-19 23:59
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 281 Barbelo 16-May-19 01:45
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 255 drew 18-Jun-19 02:15
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 253 Barbelo 18-Jun-19 02:43
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 304 hendrik dirker 18-Jun-19 06:59
movement of Sun along horizon 256 hendrik dirker 19-Jun-19 16:23
Solstice & the epoch1250 BC 489 hendrik dirker 20-Jun-19 07:02
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 277 MDaines 15-May-19 11:00
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 330 Horatech 15-May-19 12:10
To Easter Island? 293 MDaines 15-May-19 18:10
Re: To Easter Island? 310 Horatech 16-May-19 06:56
Re: To Easter Island? 310 Horatech 16-May-19 23:48
Re: To Easter Island? 353 Horatech 17-May-19 06:25
Re: To Easter Island? 273 Barbelo 17-May-19 10:53
Re: To Easter Island? 299 MDaines 17-May-19 11:41
What A Shame 291 Barbelo 17-May-19 21:14
Re: What A Shame 303 MDaines 18-May-19 07:57
Great Circles and Small Circles 593 Dr. Troglodyte 18-May-19 17:34
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 325 MDaines 18-May-19 19:09
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 290 Dr. Troglodyte 19-May-19 17:07
Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 331 MDaines 19-May-19 18:10
Re: Going Round in Circles and then to Easter Island? 342 Horatech 25-May-19 10:53
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 323 Horatech 20-May-19 07:33
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 304 Horatech 21-May-19 09:52
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 355 Dr. Troglodyte 21-May-19 18:30
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 339 MDaines 23-May-19 07:51
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 332 Horatech 23-May-19 10:48
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 300 MDaines 23-May-19 17:07
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 338 Horatech 24-May-19 08:12
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 329 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 16:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 320 MDaines 23-May-19 17:05
Re: Great Circles, Small Circles, Easter Island 342 Dr. Troglodyte 23-May-19 17:31
Re: Great Circles and Small Circles and Easter Island 378 Horatech 27-May-19 10:30
Re: What A Shame 289 Barbelo 19-May-19 20:48
Re: To Easter Island? 311 Horatech 18-May-19 09:28
Re: To Easter Island? 266 Eddie Larry 17-May-19 15:11
Re: To Easter Island? 303 Horatech 18-May-19 14:58
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 301 drew 15-May-19 23:57
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 301 MDaines 16-May-19 06:14
Re: The Three Stone Ships from the East - of the Giza Plateau 296 drew 16-May-19 06:42
ps 262 drew 16-May-19 07:22
Re: ps 275 Barbelo 16-May-19 11:11
Re: ps 287 MDaines 16-May-19 12:10
Re: ps 318 Thanos5150 16-May-19 16:06
Re: ps 307 Barbelo 16-May-19 21:00
Sometimes I go the long way round… 330 drew 17-May-19 00:59


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