Mysteries :
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For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board).
engbren Wrote:
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> I have a general interest in Graham's
> theory of a prior ancient advanced civilisation
> and very little background in ancient history so I
> don't know the Pyramid Texts at all.
Graham Hancock is remarkably insightful. If I can ever find the time I'll read some of his later books. Calling humans a "species with amnesia" is pure genius. That we could lose our memory is remarkable and a millions times more so since the first 1000 years of this amnesia occurred after the invention of writing!
> I think your analogy fits well with the evolution
> of language that Lynne Kelly proposes in her book.
I haven't read the books but she certainly seems to be on the right track. She's also after my own heart and quite intuitive. People need to be shocked out of their ruts. It's so much easier to set kids on the right track than to redirect them later. People have lost sight of metaphysics so they don't know what they know. "Knowledge" has become book learning and whatever wiki says it is even though wiki is headed in the direction of being incomprehensible.
If google can answer a question then it's probably not even "knowledge" at all. Critical thought is no more and schools are places to indoctrinate rather than teach.
> She proposes that the Shamans in the tribe used
> mnemonics or memory devices to remember a huge
> array of important knowledge that was recorded by
> observations of the tribe / Shamans. >
I'd hardly be surprised at all.
But by the time of the great pyramids I suspect there were more direct means of preserving knowledge. Specifically they could merely record the names of things in writing. The earliest book were, no doubt, recordings of old oral traditions and lists of the names of things; I suppose these would have similarities to dictionaries and encyclopedias.
But there was 40,000 years of science and it stands to reason that many means were used in various places to remember important things and to remember history. The Egyptians used stars to remember history but I don't know what they used for science. The "Book of Thot" was the metaphysics but whether it contained all the lists of names is doubtful.
> This had to
> be remembered and encoded verbally prior to
> written language.
Perhaps. But I'm guessing that writing was never invented because they had no need of writing. When pidgin Ancient Language arose it became necessary to communicate with the those who couldn't understand and writing was invented to prevent the drift of meaning as it was relays among the populous.
> I am paraphrasing here but she
> demonstrates knowledge including navigation over
> land, medicinal plants, animal behaviours
> (important for hunting), edible plants for food,
> how to survive in case of drought etc.
There was a great deal to know to dance with nature and while the language was metaphysical there were many "names" that would rarely appear in speech. Mnemonics to remember such things were no doubt used. It's extremely difficult to remember the trig functions without "some of her children are having trouble over algebra" and they would have thousands of times more to remember. The formatting in Language helped but would not be sufficient for "prophets", "priests", and other professionals.
> Information was structured with a kind of
> "heading" or memory space and each "heading" had
> one or more chants typically making use of
> mnemonics.
I believe these "headings" were just the words that existed. Specifically they would be the scientific category of all words. There were only a few thousand words. They weren't bogged down with opinion or by opinion. They knew what they knew and they knew nothing else.
It's a concise way to think. ...just like a sparrow.
> In this way, the memory space or
> heading would be akin to a function or method in
> computer code and the chant the set of
> instructions for that function/method.
They could well have set words and ideas to chants.
> As the set
> of headings grew, Shamans started to use physical
> memory devices "totems" to guide them through the
> headings and chants. The problem with these were
> the totems were only useful to the Shaman that
> created them and thus were difficult to share.
> Over time, simple notches in a totem developed
> into symbols representing sections of the chant
> which later developed into representations of
> words (written / symbolic language) and sounds
> (phonetic language).
The chants could be represented in totems.
This might explain many of the strange artefacts that have been found.
> Knowledge encoded in verbal mnemonic chants
> (Individual Verbal Memory) --> Totems (Physical
> expression of memory spaces / tools to aid / guide
> the process) --> Heiroglyphs / Written Language.
It appears that written language actually grew out of tokens used by Sumerian farmers to represent farm assets. Of course it could have arisen in a million ways because when they needed to record ideas on paper there were many options. This is simply the one that was at hand when writing became a necessity. They realized that if tokens could represent farm assets they could represent sounds as well.
There may well be more recent research on this issue.
> If I recall correctly, Kelly also demonstrates
> that in the context of anthropological studies
> described in the literature, many are written by
> missionaries who confused the ritual/chant for
> mysticism or primitive religion / superstition. To
> the casual observer and even the majority of
> uninitiated in the tribe, it would appear as magic
> or superstition as they don't have the keys to
> unlock the knowledge encoded within chants. This
> may explain the importance placed on ritual. Over
> time, the tribe expected the ritual chanting to
> occur prior to treatment / guidance on what to do
> next.
We have a knee jerk reaction to believing ancient people were primitive and superstitious. We simply take them categorically as sun addled bumpkins or knuckle dragging troglodytes, and the Egyptians as stinky footed bumpkins. Such a perspective is superstition pure and simple. Ancient humans could not have survived to give birth to homo omnisciencis if they had been so unsophisticated and superstitious. Yet we never noticed they didn't even have words for superstition!!!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a general interest in Graham's
> theory of a prior ancient advanced civilisation
> and very little background in ancient history so I
> don't know the Pyramid Texts at all.
Graham Hancock is remarkably insightful. If I can ever find the time I'll read some of his later books. Calling humans a "species with amnesia" is pure genius. That we could lose our memory is remarkable and a millions times more so since the first 1000 years of this amnesia occurred after the invention of writing!
> I think your analogy fits well with the evolution
> of language that Lynne Kelly proposes in her book.
I haven't read the books but she certainly seems to be on the right track. She's also after my own heart and quite intuitive. People need to be shocked out of their ruts. It's so much easier to set kids on the right track than to redirect them later. People have lost sight of metaphysics so they don't know what they know. "Knowledge" has become book learning and whatever wiki says it is even though wiki is headed in the direction of being incomprehensible.
If google can answer a question then it's probably not even "knowledge" at all. Critical thought is no more and schools are places to indoctrinate rather than teach.
> She proposes that the Shamans in the tribe used
> mnemonics or memory devices to remember a huge
> array of important knowledge that was recorded by
> observations of the tribe / Shamans. >
I'd hardly be surprised at all.
But by the time of the great pyramids I suspect there were more direct means of preserving knowledge. Specifically they could merely record the names of things in writing. The earliest book were, no doubt, recordings of old oral traditions and lists of the names of things; I suppose these would have similarities to dictionaries and encyclopedias.
But there was 40,000 years of science and it stands to reason that many means were used in various places to remember important things and to remember history. The Egyptians used stars to remember history but I don't know what they used for science. The "Book of Thot" was the metaphysics but whether it contained all the lists of names is doubtful.
> This had to
> be remembered and encoded verbally prior to
> written language.
Perhaps. But I'm guessing that writing was never invented because they had no need of writing. When pidgin Ancient Language arose it became necessary to communicate with the those who couldn't understand and writing was invented to prevent the drift of meaning as it was relays among the populous.
> I am paraphrasing here but she
> demonstrates knowledge including navigation over
> land, medicinal plants, animal behaviours
> (important for hunting), edible plants for food,
> how to survive in case of drought etc.
There was a great deal to know to dance with nature and while the language was metaphysical there were many "names" that would rarely appear in speech. Mnemonics to remember such things were no doubt used. It's extremely difficult to remember the trig functions without "some of her children are having trouble over algebra" and they would have thousands of times more to remember. The formatting in Language helped but would not be sufficient for "prophets", "priests", and other professionals.
> Information was structured with a kind of
> "heading" or memory space and each "heading" had
> one or more chants typically making use of
> mnemonics.
I believe these "headings" were just the words that existed. Specifically they would be the scientific category of all words. There were only a few thousand words. They weren't bogged down with opinion or by opinion. They knew what they knew and they knew nothing else.
It's a concise way to think. ...just like a sparrow.
> In this way, the memory space or
> heading would be akin to a function or method in
> computer code and the chant the set of
> instructions for that function/method.
They could well have set words and ideas to chants.
> As the set
> of headings grew, Shamans started to use physical
> memory devices "totems" to guide them through the
> headings and chants. The problem with these were
> the totems were only useful to the Shaman that
> created them and thus were difficult to share.
> Over time, simple notches in a totem developed
> into symbols representing sections of the chant
> which later developed into representations of
> words (written / symbolic language) and sounds
> (phonetic language).
The chants could be represented in totems.
This might explain many of the strange artefacts that have been found.
> Knowledge encoded in verbal mnemonic chants
> (Individual Verbal Memory) --> Totems (Physical
> expression of memory spaces / tools to aid / guide
> the process) --> Heiroglyphs / Written Language.
It appears that written language actually grew out of tokens used by Sumerian farmers to represent farm assets. Of course it could have arisen in a million ways because when they needed to record ideas on paper there were many options. This is simply the one that was at hand when writing became a necessity. They realized that if tokens could represent farm assets they could represent sounds as well.
There may well be more recent research on this issue.
> If I recall correctly, Kelly also demonstrates
> that in the context of anthropological studies
> described in the literature, many are written by
> missionaries who confused the ritual/chant for
> mysticism or primitive religion / superstition. To
> the casual observer and even the majority of
> uninitiated in the tribe, it would appear as magic
> or superstition as they don't have the keys to
> unlock the knowledge encoded within chants. This
> may explain the importance placed on ritual. Over
> time, the tribe expected the ritual chanting to
> occur prior to treatment / guidance on what to do
> next.
We have a knee jerk reaction to believing ancient people were primitive and superstitious. We simply take them categorically as sun addled bumpkins or knuckle dragging troglodytes, and the Egyptians as stinky footed bumpkins. Such a perspective is superstition pure and simple. Ancient humans could not have survived to give birth to homo omnisciencis if they had been so unsophisticated and superstitious. Yet we never noticed they didn't even have words for superstition!!!
Man fears the pyramid, time fears man.
