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Audrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos5150 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you think that maybe when they gave this
> nice
> > tidy impossible number of "forests stretching
> ten
> > thousand leagues in every direction" that maybe
> > this is just a figure of speech for say, "as
> far
> > as the eye can see"? And of all the things in
> the
> > EoG, this is what you guys focus on to
> show
> > the events it speaks of are not "actual
> events"?
> > Lol. Apparently you have not actually read it.
> And
> > by the way, if you are going to really be so
> > pedantic as to actually bother to calculate the
> > dimensions you might want to use the Babylonian
> > league and not the English league which I think
> is
> > a little less than a mile.
>
> I did a 5 min. search for Mesopotamian
> measurements and couldn't find what they equal in
> our measurements. Meso had a 60 base system, odds
> are their league was not the same as what came
> much later. But without a measuring stick of some
> sort, or detailed measurements of every niche in a
> ziggurat, like have been given for the pyramids, I
> don't know how they could know exactly what their
> league was. It's not like the tablets said.... a
> cubit equals X number of Greek pous.

My understanding is that they did not have such a thing as a "league" but the translation was offered as a placeholder using the English word of what they thought was the nearest equivalent. (Added-the idea of it being less than a mile was my own math extrapolating from the cord which the source said the Babylonian equivalent of a "league" was 30 cord, but this could be wrong).

Quote

The word beru, translated by Heidel as double-hour and by Speiser as league is a very curious one. It seems to be formed from a subsidiary stem of the verb root beru, whose basic meaning is to starve or to be hungry. From this basic meaning the subsidiary stem in question developed its meaning to persevere, to hold out, in other words, to hold out against starvation. In actual usage, the meaning was extended and the word came to mean to endure without interruption, and to continue to last. The word was used specifically in astronomy to describe stars and plnets which continued to be visible and had not gone below the horizon. From this verb, a noun was constructed with the meaning duration, although it was generally in the form biritu. A related preposition meant between, since what was endured between constituted an interval.
This noun also had a highly specific astronomical usage, meaning the angle of elongation of a star or planet. That means the angular distance from the sun. (In the case of Mercury, this never exceeds 28 degrees, which is just under 1/3 of a right angle, and may possibly relate to the thirds which were discussed above in note 11.) The central celestial sky band of An had an angular width of between 30 and 34 degrees, since An was identified with the number 60, it would seem that the degrees of his sky band were double-degrees, to yield this number. Perhaps the idea of a double-hour is similarly a normal hour counted double. Heidel does not explain why he has chosen to translate beru as double-hour. I have retained this translation but warn that the word really means 'variable interval', when Gilgamesh's journey below the horizon is described, referring to the 12 unequal hours, two of which are the period of dawn.
F. Rochberg-Hlaton, in an article on stellar distances in Babylonian astronomy stressed that the beru was: 'a unit of measure having three possible dimensions: length, time, or the measurement of an arc. As a unit of length, beru is customarily translated as mile (it is actually something over 10km), and as a unit of time it is equal to 30 ush (ush being the fundamental Babylonian unit for the measurement of both time and of arcs, equivalent to four minutes), hence 120 minutes or a double- hour. In the measurement of an arc, the beru refers to the 12th part of a circle, against 30 ush or 30 degrees, and serves as an astronomical unit, but only in the late mathematical astronomy.' Beru occurs so frequently in the Epic of Gilgamesh that it has been necessary to give a fair amount of information about it. The cosmic journey throughout the Epic, and the number of berus traversed on each occasion, are of great significance for working out what is actually being described. I have opted largely to use the translation double-hour, and occasionally leagues. But precisely what is going on in all instances is by no means clear.

Given the word is "league" I think we can safely assume the actual measure given for the length of this forest was in beru.

Quote

According to Segre¹, “NINDA meant also a measure of time,” 1/60th of 1/360th of a Babylonian day, about 4 seconds. The beru, = 1800 nindānu, would be 2 Babylonian hours, or as a length the distance walked in 1/12 of a Babylonian day.

So if "league" is a beru then this is equivalent to the distance one could walk in 2hrs.

It would appear, regardless, that the translation of "10,000 leagues" in the version being quoted is an error in translation or a mythologized version. The Yale tablet, noted in Geography of Gilgamesh Travels PART 1: The Route to the Mountain of the Cedars p102, says:

"The forest extended 60 leagues in each direction."

Oops. Only 9,940 leagues less.

So, if a beru is equivalent to 2hrs of walking then it would take 5 days to traverse this forest in either direction and 10 days to get from one end to the other. A forest of truly mythical proportions.

> It being a figure of speech is a strong
> possibility. Or as Race said, the numbers are all
> messed up for several reasons.

Indeed.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 13-Apr-18 20:58 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Case for an Older Baalbek 3264 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 06:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 525 MDaines 11-Apr-18 08:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 452 Origyptian 11-Apr-18 11:15
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 417 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 400 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 387 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 358 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 382 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 360 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 393 MDaines 12-Apr-18 13:25
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 367 Audrey 12-Apr-18 17:49
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 370 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 353 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 365 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 01:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 370 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 03:07
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 366 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 356 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:00
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 376 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:16
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 354 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 04:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 452 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 11:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 371 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:02
Re: Case for no King Solomon 418 Thunderbird 11-Apr-18 15:19
Re: Case for no King Solomon 397 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:51
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 422 Audrey 11-Apr-18 16:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 374 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 23:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 419 Eddie Larry 11-Apr-18 20:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 375 Thanos5150 11-Apr-18 22:18
How Big Was The Forest? 375 Barbelo 11-Apr-18 23:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 428 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 13:58
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 404 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 16:18
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 371 MDaines 12-Apr-18 16:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 351 Audrey 13-Apr-18 03:29
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 376 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 15:20
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 384 Audrey 14-Apr-18 01:57
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 428 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 04:12
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 378 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 10:25
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 365 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 15:54
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 302 Barbelo 14-Apr-18 22:13
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 334 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:45
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 360 Thunderbird 14-Apr-18 22:26
Re: Beer bottles Fly......Duck! 328 Eddie Larry 14-Apr-18 22:37
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 334 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 02:49
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 334 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 02:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 361 Thanos5150 15-Apr-18 03:36
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 363 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 04:21
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 397 Barbelo 15-Apr-18 05:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 337 Eddie Larry 15-Apr-18 14:00
Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 377 MDaines 16-Apr-18 07:41
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 356 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 12:59
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 396 MDaines 16-Apr-18 13:30
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 368 Thanos5150 16-Apr-18 19:39
Re: Zagros, Shoulder of the Cosmic Matriarch 393 MDaines 17-Apr-18 07:40
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 334 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 14:43
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 400 Mike D 20-Apr-18 13:15
Re: Did the Russians visit Baalbek? 326 Thunderbird 20-Apr-18 13:56
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 386 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 16:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 343 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 16:09
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 354 Thanos5150 20-Apr-18 17:00
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 337 Eddie Larry 20-Apr-18 17:11
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 352 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 20:47
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 350 Origyptian 20-Apr-18 21:45
Re: How Big Was The Forest? 462 Barbelo 20-Apr-18 22:57
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 369 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 00:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 359 Corpuscles 12-Apr-18 00:34
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 362 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 01:39
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 385 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 03:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:36
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 364 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 14:12
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 373 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 14:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:01
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 387 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 00:47
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 284 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 03:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 400 Audrey 13-Apr-18 05:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 356 Thanos5150 14-Apr-18 01:32
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 348 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Baalbek.....Home of the God's 364 Audrey 14-Apr-18 02:30
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 354 Audrey 12-Apr-18 19:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 317 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 20:43
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 335 Audrey 12-Apr-18 16:56
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 357 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 17:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 341 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 21:42
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 327 Eddie Larry 12-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 352 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:58
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 312 Eddie Larry 13-Apr-18 17:52
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 347 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 350 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 21:08
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 379 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 21:37
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 334 Origyptian 13-Apr-18 22:06
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 340 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 22:41
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 387 Origyptian 14-Apr-18 15:14
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 334 Jon Ellison 14-Apr-18 22:20
Re: For God's sakes Lee!... 347 Thunderbird 16-Apr-18 00:15
Some Give A Shit 394 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 05:11
Re: Some Give A Shit 389 MDaines 12-Apr-18 07:48
Re: Some Give A Shit 350 Audrey 12-Apr-18 20:42
Re: Some Give A Shit 373 Barbelo 12-Apr-18 21:43
Re: Some Give A Shit 344 Audrey 12-Apr-18 23:21
Re: Some Give A Shit 329 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 00:44
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 387 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 15:03
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 359 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 17:11
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 382 MDaines 12-Apr-18 17:55
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 355 Origyptian 12-Apr-18 22:18
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 352 Thunderbird 12-Apr-18 22:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 337 Audrey 13-Apr-18 00:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 389 Thunderbird 13-Apr-18 03:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 345 Thanos5150 12-Apr-18 04:46
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 412 Race Jackson 12-Apr-18 22:54
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 396 MDaines 13-Apr-18 08:20
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 378 Audrey 14-Apr-18 00:40
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 404 MDaines 14-Apr-18 08:04
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 400 Manu 13-Apr-18 18:10
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 373 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 19:28
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 358 Manu 13-Apr-18 19:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 359 Thanos5150 13-Apr-18 20:53
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 364 Manu 13-Apr-18 21:31
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 348 Barbelo 13-Apr-18 20:26
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 186 Thanos5150 14-Sep-19 15:17
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 202 Eddie Larry 14-Sep-19 15:50
Re: Case for an Older Baalbek 257 engbren 17-Sep-19 03:13


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