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sfbey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scott, You think there are rules that apply to
> writing dates as opposed to numbers iirc?

I am sure there are rules for writing dates AND numbers, Greg. Both Moeller and Goedicke present extensive lists of BOTH and how both evolved and changed over time. Neither Moeller or Goedicke show a '10' in their list of numbers ever being rotated sideways. They do show that with dates where the 'n' sign is rotated - just as we see in Merer's Logbook. I am relying on supposed experts (Moeller & Goedicke) for guidance with regards the orientation of hieratic numbers and dates. Neither of them present a 'n' (10) on its side that is not a date. That's the evidence as I have investigated it, Greg - what more do you expect me to say about it? What do you think compelled Birch to turn the 'u' sign upright to an 'n' sign, Greg?

How do
> you know there are not different rules for writing
> stone placement information? Or "rules " for
> quarry marks?. Or no rules for quarry marks
> because of their rough and ready nature?. Or
> different rules for log books? Or rules for
> lengths and heights as opposed to number of items?

I don't know and I don't claim to know. All I am claiming is to have considered the evidence of number and date signs over a long period of time (from Moeller & Goedicke) and neither of them have recorded a cardinal 'n' on its side in their number lists. Yes, they record it in their list of date signs.

> One thing for sure we have very few examples to
> consider. The paucity of hieratic inscriptions
> indicates that establishing any hard rules at all
> is intellectually suspect.

Yes, admittedly there is a paucity of evidence - I agree with that. But of that which DOES exist - and I have trawled through countless books and papers (over and above Moeller & Goedicke) and have come across not a single instance of 'n' (that is not a date) being rotated sideways in the manner some here suggest this number is to be read. They may well be right, Greg but the evidence, such as it is, suggests to me we will NEVER find such an instance outside of Campbell's Chamber and until such time as such an instance IS found (that is sideways 'n' and is not a date), we don't simply make up the rules because it suits us to do so. That is what the mainstreamers here are trying to insist that we do. Well I say No - let's find some proper evidence FIRST BEFORE we begin making assertions that these non-date numeral signs are to be read sideways.

SC



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 15-Feb-18 20:59 by Scott Creighton.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 3310 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 11:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 769 Barbelo 13-Feb-18 11:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 724 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 11:56
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 741 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 12:55
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 710 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 17:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 748 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 17:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 667 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 636 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 637 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 630 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 18:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 640 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 21:04
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 664 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 21:22
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 635 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:37
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 674 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 23:44
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 647 Merrell 14-Feb-18 08:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 618 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 17:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 606 Martin Stower 18-Jul-18 14:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 619 R Avry Wilson 13-Feb-18 21:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 643 M. J. Thomas 14-Feb-18 01:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 579 sfbey 14-Feb-18 02:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 626 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 03:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 608 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 10:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 632 M. J. Thomas 14-Feb-18 11:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 602 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 617 M. J. Thomas 13-Feb-18 17:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 656 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 18:20
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 667 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-18 19:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 661 Morten 13-Feb-18 22:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 643 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 578 Morten 13-Feb-18 22:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 694 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 628 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 12:28
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 697 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 14:50
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 600 cladking 14-Feb-18 15:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 712 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 607 cladking 14-Feb-18 16:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 610 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 623 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 16:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 592 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 16:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 602 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 17:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 602 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 594 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 17:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 697 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 582 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 607 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 690 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 18:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 686 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 555 Martin Stower 16-Jun-18 09:07
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 632 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 17:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 578 Scott Creighton 14-Feb-18 17:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 642 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 625 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 672 Morten 14-Feb-18 16:07
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 613 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 16:35
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 586 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 603 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 18:51
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 613 Origyptian 14-Feb-18 19:02
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 589 R Avry Wilson 14-Feb-18 19:02
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 598 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 19:13
Agree. n/t 585 Morten 14-Feb-18 19:03
Re: Agree. n/t 607 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 19:47
Linen list 604 Morten 14-Feb-18 20:08
Re: Linen list 623 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 22:43
Re: Linen list 593 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 22:59
Re: Linen list 611 Morten 14-Feb-18 23:09
Re: Linen list 606 Morten 15-Feb-18 10:54
Re: Linen list 636 Origyptian 15-Feb-18 15:08
Re: Linen list 553 Morten 15-Feb-18 19:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 645 Manu 07-Apr-18 02:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 661 Scott Creighton 07-Apr-18 15:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 689 Manu 07-Apr-18 19:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 715 Martin Stower 03-May-18 21:57
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 616 Corpuscles 13-Feb-18 21:37
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 640 Martin Stower 13-Feb-18 22:54
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 609 Corpuscles 13-Feb-18 23:55
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 620 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 00:19
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 615 Martin Stower 14-Feb-18 00:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 609 Corpuscles 14-Feb-18 01:01
I Know Someone Who May Be Able To Help 619 Barbelo 14-Feb-18 04:07
Re: I Know Someone Who May Be Able To Help 612 Corpuscles 14-Feb-18 06:31
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 587 eyeofhorus33 14-Feb-18 18:53
This book might help ? 593 sfbey 14-Feb-18 18:20
Re: This book might help ? 616 Morten 14-Feb-18 18:36
Re: This book might help ? 594 sfbey 14-Feb-18 18:47
Re: This book might help ? 611 Warwick 14-Feb-18 19:16
Re: This book might help ? 588 sfbey 14-Feb-18 20:14
Re: This book might help ? 626 Warwick 14-Feb-18 20:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 695 Morten 14-Feb-18 23:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 601 sfbey 15-Feb-18 02:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 607 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 10:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 607 Morten 15-Feb-18 10:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 599 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 11:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 629 Morten 15-Feb-18 12:11
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 631 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 12:28
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 613 Morten 15-Feb-18 12:59
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 564 Morten 15-Feb-18 17:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 614 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 569 Morten 15-Feb-18 17:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 575 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 562 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 18:29
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 565 Morten 15-Feb-18 18:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 599 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:27
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 583 Morten 15-Feb-18 18:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 646 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:04
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 616 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 564 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:23
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 712 Martin Stower 18-Feb-18 23:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 584 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 11:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 614 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 18:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 587 Warwick 15-Feb-18 18:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 591 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:20
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 603 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:40
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 623 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:08
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 705 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 20:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 623 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 15:21
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 592 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 599 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 16:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 604 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 573 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 16:41
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 586 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 16:46
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 614 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 17:16
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 582 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 17:27
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 601 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 18:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 621 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 18:25
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 600 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 18:52
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 605 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:03
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 749 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 570 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 19:15
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 620 eyeofhorus33 15-Feb-18 19:36
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 601 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 19:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 597 sfbey 15-Feb-18 19:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 587 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:25
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 577 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:30
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 566 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 588 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:06
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 606 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:38
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 553 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 20:56
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 584 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:09
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 586 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:19
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 552 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 591 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 568 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:42
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 563 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:53
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 584 Morten 15-Feb-18 21:58
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 578 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 22:06
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 609 sfbey 16-Feb-18 00:03
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 647 Morten 16-Feb-18 06:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 595 Scott Creighton 16-Feb-18 11:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 621 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 11:21
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 580 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 542 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 557 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:34
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 560 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:17
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 518 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:24
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 518 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 533 Scott Creighton 15-Feb-18 21:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 611 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 21:59
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 645 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 11:45
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 666 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 14:33
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 604 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 15:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 591 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 16:05
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 580 Scott Creighton 27-Feb-18 16:12
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 566 Martin Stower 27-Feb-18 16:25
Curiouser and curiouser 670 Warwick 27-Feb-18 18:01
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 559 Corpuscles 15-Feb-18 21:47
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 602 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 22:13
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 551 R Avry Wilson 15-Feb-18 20:26
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 557 Martin Stower 15-Feb-18 20:39
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 580 Spiros 16-Feb-18 09:32
Re: Rotated (or horizontal) numerals in Campbell’s Chamber 538 Spiros 16-Feb-18 11:38
Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 658 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 14:19
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 564 Morten 16-Feb-18 14:52
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 566 Morten 16-Feb-18 14:55
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 568 sfbey 16-Feb-18 14:59
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 584 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:13
Thank you n/t 673 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:53
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 603 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:00
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 562 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:25
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 561 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:29
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 585 sfbey 16-Feb-18 15:05
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 568 sfbey 16-Feb-18 15:12
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 590 Martin Stower 16-Feb-18 15:18
Re: Items of interest in Gliddon 1847 563 Morten 16-Feb-18 15:51


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