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Pudding. You know, where they keep the proof and all that.

Sirfiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Scott,
>
> Actually it is much easier to understand Ancient
> Egyptian methods if you have no knowledge of pi
> whatsoever. Unfortunately it seems no one is
> capable of overcoming their pi programming to view
> things from a different perspective clearly.

Now there's there's a terribly ironic thing for you to say. I'm not incapable of comprehending 22/7 or a seked, I just haven't had it proven to me that they ever represented the state of the art.

Suppose things in ancient Egypt were a lot like they were on GMBH and you have a couple of guys trying to give Pi away and nobody will touch it because they're perfectly happy with their 22/7, which obviously works fine for lots of things. It's just not the best that we're capable of, and I have no reason to think it was best they were capable of.

Anyway, yeah, we know you. Show us the papyrus. Therefore to use the very same criteria, the Great Pyramid was improvised because no blueprint can be produced that demonstrates premeditation.

God forbid we get you near the subject of Stonehenge because that too will have to have been improvised, because we certainly aren't likely to find you a papyrus that demonstrates any planning whatsoever went into that either. If it wasn't written down, it just never existed, end of story, right?

Sure, that's a great way to never lose an argument, to demand proofs you know you're most likely never going to get, but when is it your turn to be on the receiving end of that?

I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is 6 Pi feet. I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is (1/9) x (Pi^2) Royal Cubits. That's 10.96622711 Royal Cubits, not 11. Can you tell the difference? There is one.

I want you to prove to me that it's 11 Cubits. 1.715681818 to use Petrie's data - isn't a cubit in my book. I have enough cubits already, thanks. I have an important mathematical constant 1.715917826 in my book that probably merits more investigation for geodetic value, but I have yet to encounter an incentive to declare it or many other things an actual cubit value.

1.715681818 could be a cubit, there are countless cubits if I did like Egyptological types and round off to the nearest cubit without having to account for what that does to the length of a cubit, which is how Petrie managed to have such a menagerie of cubits that it allowed him to remain oblivious to the obvious use of the Remen in Egyptian architectural design.

As in the modern day where there is the need for metric standards to prevent an avalanche of different ways of looking at a given unit, there probably would have been a similar need in ancient times for metric standards, and I can't think of a better one than the exact geometric derivation of the consensus cubit value in feet.

Still trying my best to keep it down to one Royal Cubit, two Remens, and three Megalithic Yards here. Wish me luck keeping down the number of Palestine Cubits, I'll definitely need it.

I still haven't shown you a measuring rod or a papyrus proving they were aware of the modern foot to illuminate the Royal Cubit value thus, but I could ask what people think the diagonal of Chephren's pyramid is even if I disagree with them, and I have a round 216.0000000 feet as the intended height of Mycerinus' pyramid. These may not constitute proof of anything but they do look suspiciously like evidence.

Can you get out a papyrus or a pocket calculator and prove to me that the QC is 11 Cubits long, or is it even fair for me to ask you that if I'm already skeptical that you can deliver?

I was hoping we might be able to shed light on things looking at larger measures - I currently have it that the E-W distance between the apices of Chephren and Mycerinus' pyramids according to Petrie would probably be exactly 100 times the length of the Queen's Chamber, but I'm afraid the difference between 22/7 and Pi even at that scale is probably within a typical error margin for Petrie.

I can't prove that assessment either but I could tender as possible evidence that to regard the QC and Chephren-Mycerinus distances that way gives pleasing results in a number of metrologies using already established values even when demanding absolute precision.

Beyond that, as always I can only default to the idea that ancient architecture is meticulously designed, and that the parts should fit together coherently within in a rigid standard of accuracy. They should multiply and divide well, they should add and subtract well where applicable even for as mutually exclusive as those different operations may be. Their parts should show significant ratios between one another. They should probably frequently reference astronomy and geodesy to be convincing.

So what should we think of mathematics that can live up to all of those rigorous demands?

Do we think masterpieces like that just design themselves by accident?

Sadly, even this may not settle the issue, because 22/7 is Pi to .9995976620, while the standard of accuracy I've been able to establish is >.9995.

We might only be able to agree to disagree and see where our respective paths of inquiry take us and stop demanding proofs from one another that we should know it isn't reasonable to ask for.

I dunno, unless maybe someone is going to prove to me whether you can use their numbers at higher powers like I'm so often able to use mine, or whether the difference between 22/7 and Pi is going to become noticeable with exponential use by its impact on the numbers we should expect to see as output from that sort of application.

That's data capacity, and wanting to make any kind of statements through numbers incorporated into architecture is wanting to store data. What sort of math best serves that purpose?

Anyway, at the third power, the difference between 22/7 and Pi becomes

((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478

Their similarity seems to be plummeting here, from (22/7) / Pi = .9995976620 all the way down to ((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478, and at only the 3rd power.

Can you think of a way to use this to advantage in sorting out whether we have any examples of applications that can only work with Pi and not 22/7, as possible evidence that true Pi had to be used in the planning, even if it wasn't typical ancient Egyptian math?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-20 21:47 by thinkitover.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 3212 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 03:26
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 559 drew 06-Feb-18 04:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 521 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 17:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 424 drew 06-Feb-18 23:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ???????????????? 484 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Feb-18 14:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 410 molder 08-Feb-18 05:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 408 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 06:43
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 411 DavidK 08-Feb-18 10:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 410 molder 08-Feb-18 11:56
linking egyptian Pi to imperial Pi 346 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 347 DavidK 08-Feb-18 13:58
cubit of 20.25? 315 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:12
where does Fibonacci Pi come from? 351 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:49
Re: cubit of 20.25? 405 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 15:08
Re: cubit of 20.25? 368 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:15
Re: cubit of 20.25? 366 molder 09-Feb-18 03:58
Mod Note > Off-Topic Posts 384 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Feb-18 16:38
Re: cubit of 20.25? 531 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 21:02
Oh...what a shame... 399 drew 09-Feb-18 00:33
Re: Oh...what a shame... 396 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 04:47
Re: Oh...what a shame... 417 drew 09-Feb-18 06:02
Re: Oh...what a shame... 446 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 13:28
Re: Oh...what a shame... 404 DavidK 22-Jun-18 05:58
Re: Oh...what a shame... 341 drew 22-Jun-18 09:54
Re: Oh...what a shame... 421 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Oh...what a shame... 497 drew 22-Jun-18 22:27
Re: Oh...what a shame... 369 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 01:48
Re: well put 341 drew 23-Jun-18 08:08
To put it bluntly! 383 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 12:40
Re: well put 362 Manu 23-Jun-18 18:33
Re: extensions of numbers 315 drew 24-Jun-18 00:40
Re: extensions of numbers 375 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 04:50
Re: extensions of numbers 328 drew 24-Jun-18 08:36
Re: extensions of numbers 319 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:22
Re: extensions of numbers 323 drew 24-Jun-18 20:53
Re: extensions of numbers 322 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:06
Re: extensions of numbers 298 DavidK 25-Jun-18 16:13
Re: extensions of numbers 305 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:46
the primitive calculator 304 drew 25-Jun-18 23:23
Re: the primitive calculator 359 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 02:24
Re: the primitive calculator 290 drew 26-Jun-18 07:06
Mod Note > Duplicate Post Removed 392 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Jun-18 12:45
Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 357 rodz111 26-Jun-18 13:55
Re: Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 259 drew 27-Jun-18 05:18
Re: the primitive calculator 333 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:00
Re: the primitive calculator 324 drew 27-Jun-18 00:01
Re: the primitive calculator 322 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 00:18
Re: the primitive calculator 293 drew 27-Jun-18 01:56
Re: well put 280 cloister 24-Jun-18 09:43
Re: well put 323 Manu 24-Jun-18 12:59
Re: well put 310 cloister 24-Jun-18 18:14
Re: well put 367 cloister 29-Jun-18 08:48
Re: well put 299 drew 27-Jun-18 05:11
Re: Oh...what a shame... 361 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 12:21
Re: Oh...what a shame... 391 molder 23-Jun-18 00:24
Re: Oh...what a shame... 370 DavidK 23-Jun-18 21:06
Re: Oh...what a shame... 331 DavidK 24-Jun-18 07:41
Understanding the differences! 329 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:50
No pie for jacob 369 DavidK 24-Jun-18 08:54
Re: No pie for jacob 306 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:44
Re: No pie for jacob 332 DavidK 25-Jun-18 20:21
Re: No pie for jacob 336 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 23:19
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 294 molder 26-Jun-18 00:51
Re: what value for pi? 297 drew 26-Jun-18 14:11
Re: what value for pi? 343 molder 26-Jun-18 21:30
Re: what value for pi? 299 drew 26-Jun-18 23:42
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 284 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 14:55
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 338 molder 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 335 DavidK 26-Jun-18 10:34
Re: No pie for jacob 295 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 15:02
Re: No pie for jacob 293 DavidK 26-Jun-18 16:46
Re: No pie for jacob 302 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:12
Re: No pie for jacob 329 DavidK 26-Jun-18 18:58
Re: No pie for jacob 339 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 22:59
Re: No pie for jacob 288 DUNE 26-Jun-18 19:52
Re: No pie for jacob 294 DavidK 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 297 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 23:10
Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 305 DavidK 27-Jun-18 05:37
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 333 drew 27-Jun-18 06:16
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 305 DavidK 27-Jun-18 10:25
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 317 drew 27-Jun-18 21:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 363 rodz111 25-Jun-18 17:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 337 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 19:54
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 306 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 326 molder 26-Jun-18 03:19
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 324 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 319 molder 26-Jun-18 21:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 368 rodz111 28-Jun-18 07:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 315 drew 28-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 345 rodz111 28-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 335 drew 28-Jun-18 17:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 350 DavidK 28-Jun-18 20:00
Tripping over museum rods 345 drew 28-Jun-18 23:52
Museum rods 311 drew 29-Jun-18 00:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 335 rodz111 29-Jun-18 00:37
You're as much as a complainer as anyone but you're not... 326 drew 29-Jun-18 01:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 398 rodz111 30-Jun-18 01:21
You down and dirty so-n-so 331 drew 27-Jun-18 05:29
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 277 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 08:17
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 273 drew 27-Jun-18 09:49
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 411 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 17:12
The math or the pyramid? 348 drew 27-Jun-18 20:46
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 266 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:04
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 289 Sirfiroth 17-Jul-18 23:16
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 282 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 391 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 10:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 309 molder 19-Jul-18 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 353 Sirfiroth 19-Jul-18 12:05
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 478 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 23:57
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 332 DavidK 20-Jul-18 08:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 387 spaceyhippie 20-Jul-18 21:58
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 268 DavidK 22-Jul-18 09:41
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 373 spaceyhippie 23-Jul-18 02:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 306 DavidK 23-Jul-18 08:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 328 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 13:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 302 DavidK 23-Jul-18 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 536 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 23:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 320 DavidK 24-Jul-18 09:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 267 Sirfiroth 24-Jul-18 13:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 257 DavidK 27-Jul-18 06:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 294 Sirfiroth 27-Jul-18 15:45
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 357 spaceyhippie 24-Jul-18 02:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 366 DavidK 24-Jul-18 17:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 416 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 00:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 327 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 14:36
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 447 spaceyhippie 29-Jul-18 11:01
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 329 DavidK 06-Aug-18 19:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 302 DavidK 07-Aug-18 05:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 306 spaceyhippie 08-Aug-18 09:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 314 DavidK 08-Aug-18 09:39
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 342 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 02:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 370 DavidK 09-Aug-18 08:00
ROTFLMAO! 262 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 13:22
Re: ROTFLMAO! 270 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:12
Re: ROTFLMAO! 355 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 14:28
Re: ROTFLMAO! 255 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:49
Re: ROTFLMAO! 263 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 15:03
Re: ROTFLMAO! 278 DavidK 09-Aug-18 21:39
Re: ROTFLMAO! 303 Sirfiroth 10-Aug-18 02:06
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 314 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 20:40
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 371 DavidK 10-Aug-18 07:59
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 376 Steve Clayton 12-Aug-18 18:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 160 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 147 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 03:46
Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 163 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 04:59
Re: Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 135 molder 28-Dec-19 10:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 134 DavidK 28-Dec-19 10:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 144 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 161 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 151 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 21:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 150 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 141 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 02:17
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 145 molder 29-Dec-19 04:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 138 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 12:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 137 molder 29-Dec-19 22:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 130 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 14:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 177 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 15:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 136 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 03:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 180 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-19 04:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 154 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 15:04
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 162 spaceyhippie 31-Dec-19 23:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 156 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:29
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 142 DavidK 29-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 146 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 14:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 145 spaceyhippie 01-Jan-20 23:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 160 Sirfiroth 02-Jan-20 01:33
Pi vs Pudding 149 thinkitover 02-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Pi vs Pudding 141 spaceyhippie 03-Jan-20 00:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 157 seasmith 03-Jan-20 00:24
Re: Pi vs Pudding 141 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 23:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 183 seasmith 08-Jan-20 02:54
Re: Pi vs Pudding 149 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Pi vs Pudding 148 molder 03-Jan-20 06:56
Re: Pi vs Pudding 150 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 18:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 144 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:02
LOL, now that was hilarious ! 143 Sirfiroth 04-Jan-20 05:51
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 187 hendrik dirker 04-Jan-20 09:32
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 132 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:37
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 141 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:39
Re: Pi vs Pudding 161 molder 04-Jan-20 11:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 150 Sirfiroth 05-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi vs Pudding 141 molder 06-Jan-20 02:55
Re: Pi vs Pudding 171 magisterchessmutt 06-Jan-20 02:58
Re: Pi vs Pudding 137 molder 06-Jan-20 05:26
Re: Pi vs Pudding 138 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 01:32
Re: Pi vs Pudding 129 DavidK 07-Jan-20 02:02
Re: Pi vs Pudding 142 thinkitover 06-Jan-20 06:13
Re: Pi vs Pudding 156 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 02:18
Re: Pi vs Pudding 126 DavidK 07-Jan-20 14:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 138 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 15:16
Re: Pi vs Pudding 137 DavidK 07-Jan-20 19:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 131 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 20:08
Re: Pi vs Pudding 132 DavidK 07-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 158 DavidK 28-Dec-19 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 153 engbren 28-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 153 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:55
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 141 engbren 29-Dec-19 01:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 141 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 16:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 143 engbren 30-Dec-19 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 201 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 23:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 167 engbren 31-Dec-19 11:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 148 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:42


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