Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Pudding. You know, where they keep the proof and all that.

Sirfiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Scott,
>
> Actually it is much easier to understand Ancient
> Egyptian methods if you have no knowledge of pi
> whatsoever. Unfortunately it seems no one is
> capable of overcoming their pi programming to view
> things from a different perspective clearly.

Now there's there's a terribly ironic thing for you to say. I'm not incapable of comprehending 22/7 or a seked, I just haven't had it proven to me that they ever represented the state of the art.

Suppose things in ancient Egypt were a lot like they were on GMBH and you have a couple of guys trying to give Pi away and nobody will touch it because they're perfectly happy with their 22/7, which obviously works fine for lots of things. It's just not the best that we're capable of, and I have no reason to think it was best they were capable of.

Anyway, yeah, we know you. Show us the papyrus. Therefore to use the very same criteria, the Great Pyramid was improvised because no blueprint can be produced that demonstrates premeditation.

God forbid we get you near the subject of Stonehenge because that too will have to have been improvised, because we certainly aren't likely to find you a papyrus that demonstrates any planning whatsoever went into that either. If it wasn't written down, it just never existed, end of story, right?

Sure, that's a great way to never lose an argument, to demand proofs you know you're most likely never going to get, but when is it your turn to be on the receiving end of that?

I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is 6 Pi feet. I say the length of the Queen's Chamber is (1/9) x (Pi^2) Royal Cubits. That's 10.96622711 Royal Cubits, not 11. Can you tell the difference? There is one.

I want you to prove to me that it's 11 Cubits. 1.715681818 to use Petrie's data - isn't a cubit in my book. I have enough cubits already, thanks. I have an important mathematical constant 1.715917826 in my book that probably merits more investigation for geodetic value, but I have yet to encounter an incentive to declare it or many other things an actual cubit value.

1.715681818 could be a cubit, there are countless cubits if I did like Egyptological types and round off to the nearest cubit without having to account for what that does to the length of a cubit, which is how Petrie managed to have such a menagerie of cubits that it allowed him to remain oblivious to the obvious use of the Remen in Egyptian architectural design.

As in the modern day where there is the need for metric standards to prevent an avalanche of different ways of looking at a given unit, there probably would have been a similar need in ancient times for metric standards, and I can't think of a better one than the exact geometric derivation of the consensus cubit value in feet.

Still trying my best to keep it down to one Royal Cubit, two Remens, and three Megalithic Yards here. Wish me luck keeping down the number of Palestine Cubits, I'll definitely need it.

I still haven't shown you a measuring rod or a papyrus proving they were aware of the modern foot to illuminate the Royal Cubit value thus, but I could ask what people think the diagonal of Chephren's pyramid is even if I disagree with them, and I have a round 216.0000000 feet as the intended height of Mycerinus' pyramid. These may not constitute proof of anything but they do look suspiciously like evidence.

Can you get out a papyrus or a pocket calculator and prove to me that the QC is 11 Cubits long, or is it even fair for me to ask you that if I'm already skeptical that you can deliver?

I was hoping we might be able to shed light on things looking at larger measures - I currently have it that the E-W distance between the apices of Chephren and Mycerinus' pyramids according to Petrie would probably be exactly 100 times the length of the Queen's Chamber, but I'm afraid the difference between 22/7 and Pi even at that scale is probably within a typical error margin for Petrie.

I can't prove that assessment either but I could tender as possible evidence that to regard the QC and Chephren-Mycerinus distances that way gives pleasing results in a number of metrologies using already established values even when demanding absolute precision.

Beyond that, as always I can only default to the idea that ancient architecture is meticulously designed, and that the parts should fit together coherently within in a rigid standard of accuracy. They should multiply and divide well, they should add and subtract well where applicable even for as mutually exclusive as those different operations may be. Their parts should show significant ratios between one another. They should probably frequently reference astronomy and geodesy to be convincing.

So what should we think of mathematics that can live up to all of those rigorous demands?

Do we think masterpieces like that just design themselves by accident?

Sadly, even this may not settle the issue, because 22/7 is Pi to .9995976620, while the standard of accuracy I've been able to establish is >.9995.

We might only be able to agree to disagree and see where our respective paths of inquiry take us and stop demanding proofs from one another that we should know it isn't reasonable to ask for.

I dunno, unless maybe someone is going to prove to me whether you can use their numbers at higher powers like I'm so often able to use mine, or whether the difference between 22/7 and Pi is going to become noticeable with exponential use by its impact on the numbers we should expect to see as output from that sort of application.

That's data capacity, and wanting to make any kind of statements through numbers incorporated into architecture is wanting to store data. What sort of math best serves that purpose?

Anyway, at the third power, the difference between 22/7 and Pi becomes

((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478

Their similarity seems to be plummeting here, from (22/7) / Pi = .9995976620 all the way down to ((22/7)^3) / (Pi^3) = .998793478, and at only the 3rd power.

Can you think of a way to use this to advantage in sorting out whether we have any examples of applications that can only work with Pi and not 22/7, as possible evidence that true Pi had to be used in the planning, even if it wasn't typical ancient Egyptian math?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02-Jan-20 21:47 by thinkitover.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 3230 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 03:26
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 568 drew 06-Feb-18 04:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 531 Sirfiroth 06-Feb-18 17:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 434 drew 06-Feb-18 23:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ???????????????? 494 Dr. Troglodyte 07-Feb-18 14:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 421 molder 08-Feb-18 05:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 417 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 06:43
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 421 DavidK 08-Feb-18 10:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 422 molder 08-Feb-18 11:56
linking egyptian Pi to imperial Pi 357 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 358 DavidK 08-Feb-18 13:58
cubit of 20.25? 327 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:12
where does Fibonacci Pi come from? 361 DavidK 08-Feb-18 14:49
Re: cubit of 20.25? 415 Sirfiroth 08-Feb-18 15:08
Re: cubit of 20.25? 379 DavidK 08-Feb-18 15:15
Re: cubit of 20.25? 377 molder 09-Feb-18 03:58
Mod Note > Off-Topic Posts 394 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Feb-18 16:38
Re: cubit of 20.25? 581 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 21:02
Oh...what a shame... 408 drew 09-Feb-18 00:33
Re: Oh...what a shame... 407 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 04:47
Re: Oh...what a shame... 426 drew 09-Feb-18 06:02
Re: Oh...what a shame... 510 Sirfiroth 09-Feb-18 13:28
Re: Oh...what a shame... 414 DavidK 22-Jun-18 05:58
Re: Oh...what a shame... 351 drew 22-Jun-18 09:54
Re: Oh...what a shame... 431 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 13:32
Re: Oh...what a shame... 507 drew 22-Jun-18 22:27
Re: Oh...what a shame... 380 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 01:48
Re: well put 350 drew 23-Jun-18 08:08
To put it bluntly! 392 Sirfiroth 23-Jun-18 12:40
Re: well put 372 Manu 23-Jun-18 18:33
Re: extensions of numbers 326 drew 24-Jun-18 00:40
Re: extensions of numbers 386 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 04:50
Re: extensions of numbers 337 drew 24-Jun-18 08:36
Re: extensions of numbers 328 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:22
Re: extensions of numbers 332 drew 24-Jun-18 20:53
Re: extensions of numbers 333 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:06
Re: extensions of numbers 308 DavidK 25-Jun-18 16:13
Re: extensions of numbers 316 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:46
the primitive calculator 313 drew 25-Jun-18 23:23
Re: the primitive calculator 368 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 02:24
Re: the primitive calculator 300 drew 26-Jun-18 07:06
Mod Note > Duplicate Post Removed 444 Dr. Troglodyte 26-Jun-18 12:45
Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 368 rodz111 26-Jun-18 13:55
Re: Newton's problem solved(the relation between the Roman foot and the Egyptian foot ) 270 drew 27-Jun-18 05:18
Re: the primitive calculator 356 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:00
Re: the primitive calculator 334 drew 27-Jun-18 00:01
Re: the primitive calculator 332 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 00:18
Re: the primitive calculator 304 drew 27-Jun-18 01:56
Re: well put 291 cloister 24-Jun-18 09:43
Re: well put 333 Manu 24-Jun-18 12:59
Re: well put 320 cloister 24-Jun-18 18:14
Re: well put 410 cloister 29-Jun-18 08:48
Re: well put 308 drew 27-Jun-18 05:11
Re: Oh...what a shame... 372 Sirfiroth 22-Jun-18 12:21
Re: Oh...what a shame... 401 molder 23-Jun-18 00:24
Re: Oh...what a shame... 382 DavidK 23-Jun-18 21:06
Re: Oh...what a shame... 342 DavidK 24-Jun-18 07:41
Understanding the differences! 385 Sirfiroth 24-Jun-18 12:50
No pie for jacob 380 DavidK 24-Jun-18 08:54
Re: No pie for jacob 317 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 16:44
Re: No pie for jacob 342 DavidK 25-Jun-18 20:21
Re: No pie for jacob 351 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 23:19
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 303 molder 26-Jun-18 00:51
Re: what value for pi? 306 drew 26-Jun-18 14:11
Re: what value for pi? 355 molder 26-Jun-18 21:30
Re: what value for pi? 308 drew 26-Jun-18 23:42
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 294 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 14:55
Re: 5 values for pi in GP here are 3 349 molder 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 344 DavidK 26-Jun-18 10:34
Re: No pie for jacob 304 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 15:02
Re: No pie for jacob 303 DavidK 26-Jun-18 16:46
Re: No pie for jacob 318 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 17:12
Re: No pie for jacob 339 DavidK 26-Jun-18 18:58
Re: No pie for jacob 348 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 22:59
Re: No pie for jacob 297 DUNE 26-Jun-18 19:52
Re: No pie for jacob 303 DavidK 26-Jun-18 21:18
Re: No pie for jacob 306 Sirfiroth 26-Jun-18 23:10
Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 314 DavidK 27-Jun-18 05:37
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 370 drew 27-Jun-18 06:16
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 314 DavidK 27-Jun-18 10:25
Re: Hard evidence for base 100 using egyptian maths 330 drew 27-Jun-18 21:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 374 rodz111 25-Jun-18 17:48
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 346 Sirfiroth 25-Jun-18 19:54
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 315 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 337 molder 26-Jun-18 03:19
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 333 rodz111 26-Jun-18 03:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 329 molder 26-Jun-18 21:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 378 rodz111 28-Jun-18 07:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 325 drew 28-Jun-18 09:56
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 355 rodz111 28-Jun-18 11:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 398 drew 28-Jun-18 17:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 360 DavidK 28-Jun-18 20:00
Tripping over museum rods 354 drew 28-Jun-18 23:52
Museum rods 321 drew 29-Jun-18 00:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 345 rodz111 29-Jun-18 00:37
You're as much as a complainer as anyone but you're not... 335 drew 29-Jun-18 01:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 409 rodz111 30-Jun-18 01:21
You down and dirty so-n-so 341 drew 27-Jun-18 05:29
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 287 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 08:17
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 282 drew 27-Jun-18 09:49
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 422 Sirfiroth 27-Jun-18 17:12
The math or the pyramid? 358 drew 27-Jun-18 20:46
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 277 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:04
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 300 Sirfiroth 17-Jul-18 23:16
Re: You down and dirty so-n-so 293 DavidK 17-Jul-18 23:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 401 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 10:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 320 molder 19-Jul-18 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 364 Sirfiroth 19-Jul-18 12:05
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 490 spaceyhippie 19-Jul-18 23:57
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 342 DavidK 20-Jul-18 08:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 396 spaceyhippie 20-Jul-18 21:58
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 277 DavidK 22-Jul-18 09:41
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 382 spaceyhippie 23-Jul-18 02:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 317 DavidK 23-Jul-18 08:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 338 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 13:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 312 DavidK 23-Jul-18 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 676 Sirfiroth 23-Jul-18 23:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 331 DavidK 24-Jul-18 09:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 280 Sirfiroth 24-Jul-18 13:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 268 DavidK 27-Jul-18 06:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 304 Sirfiroth 27-Jul-18 15:45
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 367 spaceyhippie 24-Jul-18 02:44
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 376 DavidK 24-Jul-18 17:10
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 426 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 00:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 337 spaceyhippie 27-Jul-18 14:36
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 457 spaceyhippie 29-Jul-18 11:01
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 340 DavidK 06-Aug-18 19:15
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 313 DavidK 07-Aug-18 05:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 316 spaceyhippie 08-Aug-18 09:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 323 DavidK 08-Aug-18 09:39
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 351 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 02:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 380 DavidK 09-Aug-18 08:00
ROTFLMAO! 272 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 13:22
Re: ROTFLMAO! 280 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:12
Re: ROTFLMAO! 415 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 14:28
Re: ROTFLMAO! 266 DavidK 09-Aug-18 14:49
Re: ROTFLMAO! 273 Sirfiroth 09-Aug-18 15:03
Re: ROTFLMAO! 287 DavidK 09-Aug-18 21:39
Re: ROTFLMAO! 312 Sirfiroth 10-Aug-18 02:06
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 324 spaceyhippie 09-Aug-18 20:40
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 379 DavidK 10-Aug-18 07:59
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 384 Steve Clayton 12-Aug-18 18:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 170 DavidK 27-Dec-19 23:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 155 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 03:46
Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 171 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 04:59
Re: Pi. All Pi. All The Time. 145 molder 28-Dec-19 10:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 143 DavidK 28-Dec-19 10:20
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 152 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:13
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 172 Thanos5150 28-Dec-19 16:30
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 160 thinkitover 28-Dec-19 21:49
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 158 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:35
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 150 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 02:17
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 154 molder 29-Dec-19 04:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 146 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 12:51
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 146 molder 29-Dec-19 22:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 138 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 14:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 186 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 15:16
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 145 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 03:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 191 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-19 04:33
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 162 Sirfiroth 31-Dec-19 15:04
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 171 spaceyhippie 31-Dec-19 23:37
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 165 Thanos5150 29-Dec-19 04:29
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 150 DavidK 29-Dec-19 09:32
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 158 Sirfiroth 29-Dec-19 14:09
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 155 spaceyhippie 01-Jan-20 23:18
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 170 Sirfiroth 02-Jan-20 01:33
Pi vs Pudding 158 thinkitover 02-Jan-20 21:45
Re: Pi vs Pudding 150 spaceyhippie 03-Jan-20 00:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 168 seasmith 03-Jan-20 00:24
Re: Pi vs Pudding 150 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 23:06
Re: Pi vs Pudding 195 seasmith 08-Jan-20 02:54
Re: Pi vs Pudding 157 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 03:36
Re: Pi vs Pudding 158 molder 03-Jan-20 06:56
Re: Pi vs Pudding 159 Sirfiroth 03-Jan-20 18:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 154 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:02
LOL, now that was hilarious ! 153 Sirfiroth 04-Jan-20 05:51
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 198 hendrik dirker 04-Jan-20 09:32
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 142 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:37
Re: LOL, now that was hilarious ! 152 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 23:39
Re: Pi vs Pudding 170 molder 04-Jan-20 11:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 160 Sirfiroth 05-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi vs Pudding 151 molder 06-Jan-20 02:55
Re: Pi vs Pudding 180 magisterchessmutt 06-Jan-20 02:58
Re: Pi vs Pudding 145 molder 06-Jan-20 05:26
Re: Pi vs Pudding 148 spaceyhippie 07-Jan-20 01:32
Re: Pi vs Pudding 137 DavidK 07-Jan-20 02:02
Re: Pi vs Pudding 151 thinkitover 06-Jan-20 06:13
Re: Pi vs Pudding 165 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 02:18
Re: Pi vs Pudding 135 DavidK 07-Jan-20 14:25
Re: Pi vs Pudding 147 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 15:16
Re: Pi vs Pudding 146 DavidK 07-Jan-20 19:03
Re: Pi vs Pudding 141 Sirfiroth 07-Jan-20 20:08
Re: Pi vs Pudding 140 DavidK 07-Jan-20 20:11
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 167 DavidK 28-Dec-19 11:21
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 161 engbren 28-Dec-19 12:34
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 162 Sirfiroth 28-Dec-19 15:55
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 150 engbren 29-Dec-19 01:14
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 151 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-19 16:52
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 151 engbren 30-Dec-19 22:23
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 211 magisterchessmutt 30-Dec-19 23:24
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 176 engbren 31-Dec-19 11:31
Re: Pi or no Pi ?????????????? 158 spaceyhippie 04-Jan-20 00:42


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.