Scott Creighton Wrote:
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> charly Wrote:
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> > Scott Creighton Wrote:
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> > -----
> > > charly Wrote:
> > >
> >
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> >
> > > -----
> > > > Scott Creighton Wrote:
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> > >
> >
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>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > charly Wrote:
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> > > > > -----
> > > > > > Audrey Wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if every mastaba were originally
> a
> > > > tomb,
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > would that show that the pyramids
> were
> > > > tombs?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The pyramid evolved from the mastaba;
> > > > Djoser's
> > > > > > original mastaba evolved into a stepped
> > > > mastaba
> > > > > > and then with Sekhemkhet a square
> > grounplan
> > > > was
> > > > > > used thus creating the first step
> > pyramid.
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean like this:
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> > > > > SC
> > > >
> > > > Not at all, a comparison between a church
> > > steeple
> > > > and a skyscraper is totally meaningless and
> > has
> > > > nothing to do with the fact that Djoser's
> > > monument
> > > > evolved from a mastaba into a stepped
> > mastaba.
> > > Or
> > > > do you deny this fact?
> > >
> > > I don't deny that you have claimed it as a
> fact.
> > I
> > > have yet to see it proven so.
> > >
> > > Ancient Egyptian kings were buried in mastaba
> > > tombs BEFORE the great pyramid-building age
> and
> > > AFTER it.
> >
> > Shepseskhaf was buried in a mastaba-like tomb,
>
> It's actually questionable whether Shepseskaf was
> actually buried in the mastaba attributed to him
> but we'll let that one slide. If he was then
> yes--because mastabas WERE tombs.
>
> > but then it's again pyramids,
>
> Which WEREN'T tombs.

They were; you just claim they weren't.

There are at least two kings
> who have both mastaba tombs and, supposedly,
> pyramid tombs. Furthermore, the 5th/6th Dyn
> pyramids were built for the Ka of the King
> and for very good reason. Built for his KA -- NOT
> his actual body.

Not his body? Why burial chambers with sarcophagi, PT's and funerary equipment?
BTW, I thought they were part of your seed vault story, must be mistaken then.

> Saff-tombs for the 11th
> > dyn and then again pyramids untill the switch
> to
> > rock-cut tombs in the NK.
>
> Yes, tombs.
>
>
> >
> > Simply because the base of the first
> > > pyramid built looks like a mastaba and has
> > several
> > > mastaba-looking steps creating a step pyramid
> > > shape does not mean and should not mean that
> > the
> > > step pyramid was intended as a tomb.
> >
> > The royal tomb chamber with it's burial vault
> and
> > the galleries containing the remains of
> sarcofagi
> > and skeletons of members of the royal family,
> are
> > more than a subbtle hint that Djoser's pyramid
> was
> > intended as a tomb.
> >
> If the Step Pyramid was (stupidly) used as a tomb
> by Djoser does not mean it was CONCEIVED and BUILT
> as a tomb.

Yes it was, it's very clear from an architectural analysis that the Step Pyramid complex combines the architecture of a typical 2nd dyn royal tomb with that of a 2nd dyn funerary enclosure into one structure.

Do you not understand the difference?
> Can you explain why the remains of what is beieved
> to be a foot of Djoser is around 1,000 years
> younger than Djoser?

It is not believed to be a foot of Djoser but an intrusive burial from a later period.

> > That's like
> > > saying the similar looking church building
> > evolved
> > > into a sky-scraper. Their functions are very
> > > different and THAT'S the point. Just because
> > there
> > > are similarities does not mean and should not
> > mean
> > > that their function was the same.
> >
> > Unless there are so much similarities that a
> same
> > function becomes undeniable.
>
> Define "so much similarities"? How many exactly
> and what are they?

Pyramids contain burial chambers, security measures and sarcophagi just like mastaba tombs, and are mostly surrounded by other tombs.
Pyramids that weren't tombs such as the "seven provincial step pyramids" didn't have chambers.

> > Your church building - sky-scraper comparison
> is
> > still a meaningless one in this context.
> >
>
> No, it's not. It is designed to show how we can
> easily see something and jump to conclusions. Just
> because something LOOKS similar doesn;t mean they
> were intended to BE similar or have the same
> intended function.

In case of the "seven provincial step pyramid" this is correct, for the other pyramids it's quite different.

If you want to prove the
> pyramids were conceived as tombs for the burial of
> AE kings then you will have to produce much better
> evidence than this.

Don't need to, has been done already ;-)

> > > The simple fact of the matter is that if in
> > > ancient times, without iron or steel, I
> wanted
> > to
> > > build a very tall structure for WHATEVER
> > REASON,
> > > then, by necessity, it would have to take the
> > form
> > > of a pyramid shape as this shape is the most
> > > naturally stable shape to build without iron
> or
> > > steel. And in the early stages I would most
> > likely
> > > begin with a step pyramid until I had
> > sufficient
> > > skill and experience to figure out how to
> > smooth
> > > out the sides.
> > >
> > > Mastabas were tombs and were for burial.
> > Mastaba
> > > tombs contained QRSW, pyramids didn't.
> Pyramids
> > > were for something else altogether.
> > >
> > > SC
> >
> > Not sure what the abbreviation QRSW means.
>
> QRSW is but one AE word for 'sarcophagus'.
>
> SC

Sarcophagi have been found in most pyramids, so your statement is totally incorrect.
I almost forgot that you try (in vain) to transform them into "Osiris-beds", which are completly different things.