Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Aine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't have all the answers either and I'm not a
> physicist. BUT...I don't understand how you come
> to the conclusion that DNA dumps more energy into
> the system. When the double strand is formed, heat
> is released as per Law 2. The heat released
> increases the entropy in the universe more than
> the decrease in the system.

It takes a tremendous amount of energy to create the nucleic acid strands (the enzymes don't work for free), and DNA clearly has a highly organized structure. The energy infusion and complex organization both violate the 2nd Law.


> Metabolism produces excess heat and excretion of
> high entropy packets. So we maintain our low
> entropy state through dumping high energy waste
> products into our environment.

Metabolism presumes a living organism; creating that organism required quite a bit of energy infusion and organization into the system. Otherwise, we wouldn't need to eat more than we burn as excess heat, and we'd just look like a giant living blob without all that tissue organization.


> As for DNA precursors, I'm sure you're familiar
> with the RNA World hypothesis? The interplay
> between DNA, RNA and proteins pretty much
> guarantees that life didn't start out using those
> three macromolecules, but started out based on a
> simpler, less complex system, one that was
> probably based on nucleotides. RNA can do all that
> DNA can and more--but DNA is more stable.

Such speculation is possible, but since it hasn't been verified it can't displace other hypotheses or neutralize the 2nd Law Violation contention.



> There's no evidence that the universe was created
> by an intelligent designer, but some people seem
> to accept that wholeheartedly.

For that matter, there's no evidence the universe was created by random events either.


> It's probably more like the Big Inflation, but I
> don't see any evidence that the universe is in
> contraction mode. If it's contracting, how do you
> explain Hubble's red shifts? How do you explain
> the fact that every galaxy, with the exception of
> a few close to us, are moving away from us. And
> they're not just moving away. The further away
> they are, the faster they're moving.
> How do you explain that?

That could be an artifact of a non-linear spacetime grid and/or the dynamic of decreasing energy precipitating into an increase in mass in the universe as the current "Big Oscillation" cycle progresses. Or it might still be expanding. Either way it's not testable, and isn't that relevant to the main point here.


> But it's not in defiance of the laws. That being
> said, it's not pure coincidence, either. The stuff
> of life is chemistry and physics. See RNA World
> above. Every interaction and evolution of pre-RNA
> World into DNA follows the laws of chemistry and
> physics. There's no getting around that.

And the process requires the infusion of energy and order. Ergo, 2nd Law violation.


> The negentropy (negative entropy) in a biological
> context keeps the entropy of the organism low. As
> Brillouin says, a living system imports negentropy
> and stores it. Put another way, the order created
> by life as it undergoes metabolism (cell division,
> etc.) is more than compensated for in the heat
> (entropy) it releases.

I didn't get that. the entropy of a living organism may not exceed the amount of energy the organism consumes at any point in time. Otherwise, the organism is no longer living.


> Don't forget, entropy can
> only increase or remain constant, never decrease.
> Organisms take in free energy in the form of
> nutrients (calories) or sunlight, and they return
> an equal amount of heat and therefore entropy.

I think I need to disagree with that. Much of the energy we consume is not dissipated as entropy. It is put to useful work.


> Your dilemma is ultimately resolved by Nobel Peace
> Prize winning theoretical chemist John Scales
> Avery, who says that the paradox is resolved "in
> the information content of the Gibbs free energy
> that enters the biosphere from outside sources."
> (Information Theory and Evolution, 2012).

The point is it's energy that's infused to the system, regardless where it comes from.


> > That's news to me. What are the clearly delineated
> > limitations of magic?
>
> I was being sarcastic.

Hilarious. OK, sorry!


> > Requiring rules or parameters for the intelligent
> > designer but not for God is a double standard.
>
> Ah, but ultimately, the designer is God. The ID
> crowd just won't come out and say it.

Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

We only know of intelligence that arrises out of carbon-based living organisms. We have no idea if there might be non-carbon intelligence, or even non-corporal intelligence. We barely know what's going on in our own solar system, let alone other solar systems, other galaxies, or other 'verses. I think it's way too premature to presume where it all came from. My comments about the origin of intelligent life on Earth doesn't apply to other arguable forms of intelligence. I am only commenting on the notion that carbon-based DNA-driven intelligent lifeforms on Earth developed purely out of coincidence resulting from a long string of random events strikes me as highly implausible compared to the ID model.


> Okay, but if God created the complexity that is
> the universe, how complex must he be himself?
> Surely nothing that complex could come about by
> random coincidence. Therefore, he must have been
> created.

It's already far too difficult to fathom infinity let alone a logical infinite God who/that created the universe.


> > I may be wrong and may eventually come around, but
> > I don't see a way to that path any time soon. The
> > process is too enormous with profound consequences
> > to handwave it all to an unidentified deity
> > without understanding what's entailed in that process.
>
> And that's just it. They haven't identified the
> designer. That's one of the shortcomings from a
> scientific standpoint.

At least it's an approach to determine what actually happened. Attributed it to "God" is just a lazy way to say it's such an enormous undertaking that we can never understand and therefore must have been the work of a diety. As if the humble 3 pounds of goop between our ears was ever designed to comprehend such things at all.



> >
> > And by the way, this is not about whether you or I
> > "believe in God". It's about what specific aspects
> > of the universe are attributed to God. The claim
> > that God just decided to create it all one day is
> > extremely defeatist, and I believe it cuts short
> > the true beauty and richness of the universe.
>
> I get it, no offense taken.

Thanks, Aine.

By the way, how do you pronounce your name? Is it eye-neh?

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2772 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 583 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 394 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 439 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 468 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 368 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 504 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 398 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 428 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 395 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 348 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 384 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 386 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 344 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 398 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 375 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 308 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 355 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 434 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 297 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 321 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 368 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 422 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 308 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 429 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 367 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 362 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 339 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 444 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 354 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 351 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 296 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 328 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 301 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 281 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 304 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 340 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 341 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 326 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 328 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 247 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 412 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 363 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 337 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 306 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 386 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 340 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 325 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 329 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 334 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 298 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 342 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 341 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 306 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 304 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 293 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 322 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 352 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 383 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 405 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 294 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 336 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 324 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 307 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 321 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 310 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 348 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 309 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 325 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 291 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 267 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 318 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 280 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 303 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 291 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 297 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 325 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 287 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 291 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 336 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 272 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 257 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 301 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 342 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 287 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 266 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 347 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 298 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 283 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 318 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 346 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 334 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 259 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 268 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 299 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 269 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 301 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 267 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 335 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 304 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 267 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 317 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 315 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 308 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 292 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 294 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 287 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 282 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 228 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 272 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 395 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 271 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 340 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 254 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 280 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 396 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 286 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 270 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 312 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 254 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 397 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 312 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 269 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 269 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 379 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 223 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 358 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 246 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 240 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 255 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 291 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 246 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 270 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 296 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 280 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 273 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 395 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 288 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 325 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 395 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 258 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 299 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 268 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 281 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 312 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 263 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 278 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 251 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 272 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 254 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 229 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 221 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 253 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 269 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 337 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 269 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 318 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 233 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 231 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 258 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 349 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 320 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 344 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 276 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 266 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 325 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 309 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 319 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 348 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 369 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 349 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 334 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 346 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 337 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 298 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 338 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 359 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 349 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 270 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 232 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 403 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 327 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 377 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 242 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 317 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 299 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 259 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 281 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 250 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 316 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 246 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 285 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 284 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 257 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 208 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 233 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 235 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 256 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 258 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 251 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 313 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 303 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 282 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 249 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 270 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 237 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 251 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 267 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 324 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 269 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 302 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 318 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 329 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 296 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 333 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 250 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 257 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 221 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 337 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 295 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 250 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 267 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 278 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 297 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 309 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 328 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 348 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 335 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 363 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 352 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 315 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 328 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 332 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 359 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 285 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 342 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 317 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 225 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 318 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 320 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 297 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 303 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 321 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 352 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 277 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 283 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 315 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 280 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 264 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 296 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 310 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 314 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 316 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 306 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 269 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 300 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 265 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 292 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 264 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 300 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 298 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 332 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 359 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 293 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 265 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 298 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 256 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 304 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 256 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 232 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 204 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 325 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 309 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 336 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 300 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 338 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 258 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 296 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 289 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 321 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 309 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 396 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 277 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 321 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 299 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 259 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 266 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 274 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 275 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 282 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 261 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 256 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 278 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 257 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 247 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 255 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 326 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 260 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 247 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 277 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 284 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 342 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 268 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 283 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 322 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 266 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 288 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 381 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 196 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 327 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 237 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 266 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 242 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 285 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 262 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 303 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 345 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 321 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 322 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 305 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 309 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 265 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 315 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 241 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 274 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 274 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 295 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 327 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 244 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 269 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 263 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 355 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 280 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 327 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 395 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 264 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 358 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 285 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 301 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 238 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 375 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 296 PB Bytes 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 404 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 249 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 287 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 335 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 345 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 262 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 361 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 284 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 348 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 222 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 270 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 308 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 349 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 264 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 302 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 295 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 285 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 266 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 392 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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