1 - Your answer to my a.m. post:
More generally, did it become no longer correct to say that evolution is entirely random from the moment we commenced with the first genetic manipulation of anything?
I'm not being rhetorical here, just asking.
2. Referring to this yur post answering to Aine, of which here below is a quote:
But the basic idea I am getting at involves the very first genetic manipulation of a living species or human - if the term 'mutation' applies to such activity - by us. Once that is done, it no longer seems that we can say that all mutations are random, due to our own precedent.
More generally, I'm wondering what you think of the idea that this may have been done to our species in a distant time, a kind of Stichen thing. It seems to me that this idea has been given some attention.
Hi Mark (if I'm right remembering your name),
I'm sorry if I come back again to the question of the meaning of words, but in this delicate and important context
they, the menings, are of utmost importance to well understand each other.
Advise: this post will be a bit long one and so if you like to have patience to read it till the end,
I thank you in advance for that.
RANDOM: This is a quite complicate concept and meaning, so in order to not disperse into complexed descriptions,
I choose this one which IMHO is the most useful to understand that concept:
Randomness is the lack of pattern or predictability in events. A random sequence of events, symbols or steps
has no order and does not follow an intelligible pattern or combination.
Random selection, when narrowly associated with a simple random sample, is a method of selecting items (often
called units) from a population where the probability of choosing a specific item is the proportion of those
items in the population. For example, with a bowl containing just 10 red marbles and 90 blue marbles, a
random selection mechanism would choose a red marble with probability 1/10. Note that a random selection
mechanism that selected 10 marbles from this bowl would not necessarily result in 1 red and 9 blue. In
situations where a population consists of items that are distinguishable, a random selection mechanism
requires equal probabilities for any item to be chosen.
That is, if the selection process is such that each member of a population, of say research subjects, has the
same probability of being chosen then we can say the selection process is random.
I choose the "random sample" cause I spent over 10 years during my working life in a Supervising Company, the
biggest in the world, which main task was to collect "Significative sample" of big trading merchandises goods,
like wheat, barley,soya beans crude oil, minerals, all kind of edible vegetal oils.
Can you imagine to certify the "exact quality" of 60.000 Tons and more of wheat, or barley or edible vegetable oils,
how accurate and complicate is,the speedy sampling process that was need to carry on during loading or
discharging operation from a merchant ships ?
The exact quality of the sampled goods were strictly connette with this principle:
" IF " for example wheat, are formed of high percentage (for instance 70%) of good wheat, this will result
in a sample analysis of about half or maximum 1 kilogram of finalized sample, from which in order to be analyze
in laboratory the percentage of contained gluten, less than 100 grams were more than sufficient.
The result confirmed the good quality of the wheat.
Of course IF the wheat was of poor quality, (for example 40%) the result will give the result
conformed the poorest quality of wheat.
According to the above mentionned IF conditions whe will have the " THEN " result
I state all what above to focus the question of "RANDOM" into the term of IF i.e. the unknow and
unpredictable quality of wheat (or other goods) subjet to finalize a conclusion of trading contract related to
Buy / Selling, which prices and other contractual clause - the "THEN " result: payment of the loaded
and shipped goods (or the unloaded and received goods).
Apart of the quality there are also the problem of the weight: how exatly could be determine the correct
cjarged or discharged weight ?
This is also subject to the IF and in consequence the THEN: let continue with wheat, as example
IF the delivery were performed using trucks, "weigh bridge" of the Sea Port in a good condition (and we also verified it)
weighing the empty trucks and re-weighing the same ,laded trucks, we will have the correct delivered weight of the goods (wheat)
If the delivery were performed using Silos pneumatic systems, we verify that all the weigh scales of the pneumatic
system were in proper order: then reading the data of the scales we will have the correct weight.
But ... IF ... we do not verify and the "weigh bridge" or Silos scale system were not in goo condition, THEN
we would not have the correct delivered weight.
I used such examples because in Nature the Random principle is strictly conneccted with the IF .... THEN
As may you well know Computer and electronic (just in a poor and simple words) are based on the condition of
0 or 1 which was determining IF it is 0.... THEN the result is A (of course for a mery silly examples),
IF it is 1 THEN the result is B.
And so on with 2, 4 , 8 , 16, 32, 64 etc.... Bit composed of 0 and 1
Nowadays electronic evolved but the base is always made on the condition of IF ..... THEN, but the
evolution (development ?!?) of electronic-digital sequnced program are composed by:
IF plus some detailed postulate which in turn determine THEN with many detailed results, according
to mathematical calculations.
All what above we called and identify as "algorithms".
WELL.... can you imagine to apply the IF... THEN principle on our physical world starting since the beginning of its esistence ? and also to the beginning of the life on it ?
Let me try: we know that he life on Earth is possible because our planet has the right condition to
support and maintain it.
IF the Earth would not have the "right conditions" to start and support, THEN we would not have the life on it.
IF the Earth would not have the right conditions THEN it will be not in the actual position, in which is now, into our Solar System.
And so on, so on .......
After above long dissertation about the IF and THEN, IMHO we can achieve following links between different
words and therefore concepts:
IF along with AND / OR: is a CONDITION which can be defined as the "BEGINNING OF A RANDOM EVENT"
(AND / OR can be figured in complicate sequences as an ALGORITHM).
THEN along with AND / OR : are the "CONSEQUENCES OF THE HAPPENED CONDITION"
(AND / OR can be figured in complicate sequences as an ALGORITHM).
We can say, following these considerations, which are based on Facts (see the example of samplings), that
in Biology the THEN along with AND can be identified as MUTATION, word which means:
In biology, a mutation is the permanent alteration of the nucleotide sequence of the genome of an organism,
virus, or extrachromosomal DNA or other genetic elements.
while OR can be identified as EVOLUITION, word which means:
Evolution is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.
Evolutionary processes give rise to biodiversity at every level of biological organisation, including the
levels of species, individual organisms, and molecules.
Examining now the question of Human Manipulation (i.e. modification of the enviroment and beings on our planet)
I think that being us, Human Being, part of the Nature of this Planet on which we live, doing manipulations
atc, perfectly match with the CONDITIONS .. i.e. the "IF":
IF we will have not developped the knowledge we have reached today, THEN we would not have been able to do such manipulations etc.
That's why, IMHO, the RANDOM EEVENTS are at the base of evry CONSEQUENCES we can see today around us.
The IF..... THEN concept and point of view, IMHO of course, can facilitate the comprehension and
discoveries of many and many things and forces of which we do not are aware yet.
That is what I personally define: ALL WAS IS CLOSE, AROUND AND BEYOND US IS DUE AND MADE ONLY BY THE UNIVERSE
(i.e. systems in which forces works).
Concluding: NOT an "INTELLIGENT DESIGN", but just what UNIVERS IS.
Nice and Bright Day
I'm perfectly aware that (may be) some will take the IF ... THEN as a proof of "Intelligent Design"......
but I'm also perfectly aware that Beliefs do not have any border.......
Edited to add the source of RANDOM - MUTATION- EVOLUTION words and concepts:
You can not solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that you used to create it.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03-Jan-18 16:53 by Vanya.