Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Aine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> Has it occured to you that perhaps DNA itself
> evolved, and the relationship between RNA, DNA and
> proteins co-evolved? I doubt very much that DNA
> was the first agent of heredity.
> ...
> Here's another possibility: life is an immutable
> property of the universe. And another: the
> universe itself is evolving, and life is simply
> the next step.

Aine, I don't claim to have all the answers, but it's just too much of a stretch for me to have that much blind faith that the vast complexity of DNA is a product of random events that bucked the 2nd Law by inserting more energy and organization into the system. I'm having trouble reconciling the degree to which purely natural biological processes would allow entropy to take a back seat, especially if life is the "next step" in the "evolving universe". I'd like to hear more of what you're thinking regarding DNA precursors that still were able to sustain life.

And if life truly is the next step in the evolution of the universe, then we might expect more evidence of life out there that demonstrates that trend (the single data point of Earth can't be used to represent a statistical trend). I realize we've barely touched the surface of exploring that possibility, but we do not yet have evidence to support the notion that life is an immutable property of the universe. And if the Big Bang model is real, the universe appears to be in contraction mode which could arguably mean the universe is winding down ("in reversal"?) and not evolving further.

> ...
> It's passing the buck to claim (as IDers and
> creationists do) that life on Earth MUST have been
> created, but God is subject to special rules
> exempting him from that question, and wasn't
> designed or created. It's more special pleading,
> but passing the buck does apply.

It's not that I believe life "must have been" created, it's that I can't fathom that such complexity and defiance of entropy could be a random process that established itself by pure coincidence...or by a deity without requiring any scientific principles to account for the cause and effect. To me, it's akin to claiming that a chimp will eventually write perfect Shakespeare if left in a room with enough time, pencils, and paper.

What seems contradictory to me is that the ID camp is trying to apply scientific principles to the process while the God camp is happy to simply have faith without the hard work of explaining how it all actually happened. So yes, attributing it all to an unknown Godly miracle is indeed passing the buck in the sense that God is not subject to the same burden of proof that the ID camp is attempting to invoke to explain those processes that rely so much on negative entropy.


> > What rules apply to God? And if God
> > is "intelligent", where did that intelligence come
> > from? Is God getting smarter? Is God subject to
> > the laws of thermodynamics? Does God follow the
> > laws of statistics?
>
> Wouldn't we all love to know that. LOL In If he
> designed and created it, why wouldn't he be
> subject to it himself?

The contradiction of the God model in a nutshell.


> The problem with ID is that it doesn't set out any
> rules or parameters for their as yet nameless
> intelligent designer. Even magic has clearly
> delineated limitations.

That's news to me. What are the clearly delineated limitations of magic?

Requiring rules or parameters for the intelligent designer but not for God is a double standard.


> > If the laws of physics don't apply to God,
> > how do we account for God!
>
> And therein lies the rub!

And I'm not ignoring the dilemma of "who created the intelligent designer". I'm only trying to understand how such processes that we see all around us today could have been created. Sure, it's easy to just kick back and take the unfathomable complexity and organization of living systems and simply claim they appeared magically through divine intervention, but it's another thing to actually envision what that means in practical terms. Unless one believes Adam and Eve did simply suddenly appear one day, fully formed with all their organs and personality intact, and complete with their own portable ocean (blood) to supply them with proper nutrients and waste removal, and ready to self-maintain through procreative (with whom?!) and healing processes, then we need to account for how it all came about. I just think attributing it all to the magic hand of God is the lazy way out. I can't help but think that passing it all off to God is simply a ploy to relieve us from the hard work of understanding what actually happened.

I may be wrong and may eventually come around, but I don't see a way to that path any time soon. The process is too enormous with profound consequences to handwave it all to an unidentified deity without understanding what's entailed in that process.

And by the way, this is not about whether you or I "believe in God". It's about what specific aspects of the universe are attributed to God. The claim that God just decided to create it all one day is extremely defeatist, and I believe it cuts short the true beauty and richness of the universe.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03-Jan-18 14:23 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2764 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 579 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 388 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 426 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 463 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 363 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 497 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 391 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 422 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 391 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 344 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 378 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 382 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 340 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 394 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 371 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 346 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 430 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 292 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 364 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 309 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 417 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 303 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 425 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 362 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 358 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 335 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 250 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 438 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 348 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 345 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 290 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 325 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 294 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 298 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 298 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 279 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 336 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 312 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 319 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 336 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 322 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 242 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 274 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 408 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 358 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 333 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 302 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 379 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 336 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 325 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 329 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 231 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 293 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 337 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 299 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 297 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 289 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 315 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 348 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 378 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 400 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 302 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 315 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 305 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 343 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 305 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 321 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 287 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 262 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 314 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 276 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 297 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 286 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 292 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 320 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 283 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 285 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 332 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 268 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 252 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 297 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 335 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 282 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 260 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 340 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 293 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 278 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 342 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 235 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 268 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 267 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 330 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 255 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 261 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 295 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 263 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 295 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 263 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 326 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 300 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 261 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 312 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 309 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 304 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 288 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 290 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 281 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 276 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 222 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 267 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 391 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 263 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 334 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 249 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 275 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 387 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 282 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 266 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 308 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 326 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 324 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 392 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 306 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 264 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 265 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 375 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 249 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 218 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 210 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 245 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 253 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 352 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 257 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 235 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 250 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 287 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 237 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 265 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 292 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 268 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 268 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 386 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 284 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 321 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 390 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 252 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 293 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 264 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 277 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 306 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 259 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 272 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 246 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 268 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 249 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 224 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 216 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 248 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 263 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 333 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 264 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 313 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 227 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 227 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 230 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 252 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 344 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 315 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 339 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 270 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 262 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 321 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 305 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 324 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 344 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 365 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 343 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 340 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 332 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 293 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 332 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 354 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 343 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 234 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 229 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 228 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 397 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 278 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 371 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 298 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 252 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 222 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 293 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 254 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 277 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 243 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 312 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 242 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 280 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 277 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 253 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 204 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 229 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 230 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 252 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 253 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 309 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 300 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 277 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 245 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 266 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 233 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 241 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 263 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 320 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 266 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 299 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 313 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 324 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 293 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 327 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 247 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 252 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 218 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 331 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 292 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 245 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 264 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 275 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 292 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 302 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 324 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 327 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 304 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 344 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 256 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 358 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 348 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 299 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 312 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 353 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 282 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 222 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 315 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 316 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 255 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 294 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 298 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 318 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 273 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 348 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 319 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 272 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 250 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 293 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 307 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 317 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 312 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 301 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 283 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 263 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 272 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 296 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 265 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 250 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 297 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 294 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 308 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 329 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 354 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 289 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 260 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 294 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 252 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 273 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 216 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 301 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 253 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 263 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 229 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 274 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 199 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 285 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 295 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 335 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 254 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 293 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 286 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 314 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 305 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 393 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 271 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 317 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 296 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 255 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 262 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 270 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 270 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 277 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 257 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 275 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 243 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 251 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 249 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 320 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 242 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 255 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 241 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 273 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 279 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 339 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 264 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 276 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 318 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 262 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 283 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 377 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 193 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 322 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 233 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 237 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 281 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 259 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 299 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 341 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 318 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 319 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 302 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 305 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 261 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 245 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 312 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 237 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 270 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 268 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 292 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 323 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 240 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 263 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 258 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 350 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 276 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 323 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 326 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 312 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 326 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 274 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 390 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 260 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 354 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 282 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 297 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 233 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 372 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 290 PB Bytes 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 401 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 246 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 288 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 284 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 334 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 244 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 331 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 321 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 341 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 239 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 258 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 357 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 280 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 343 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 286 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 297 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 306 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 219 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 245 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 294 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 266 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 303 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 345 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 261 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 298 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 288 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 281 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 260 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 388 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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