Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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Hi Thanos,

Thanks for clarifying your position. Just to restate things going forward, to make sure I am clear, you are saying that the Judeo-Christian view if this historical period is wanting at best, because it doesn't recognize other information that we basically know about this setting and certain essential facts. I will do the cut and paste thing on the issues that I would be grateful if you could clarify or expand upon.

"First of all, this 430yrs comes from the Bible and is not part of Egyptian history, of which there is a lot for this period."

Understood, and this seems to be the basis of your argument in general.

"According to Jewish tradition Abraham was born c. 1800BC. This would put his life, and the beginning of the sojourn to Egypt from Canaan, squarely towards the beginnings of the 13th Dynasty in Egypt. Yes, the AE had slaves from the Levant (Canaan), not to mention many other areas like Libya and Nubia, but these were not "Hebrews" but rather various semitic peoples, often women and war prisoners. There was no such thing as a "Hebrew" during this time nor was there a Yahweh. But they were not an "enslaved people" by any means regardless and Canaan in the 13th Dynasty actually invaded the Nile Delta and formed their own kingdom there."

So, you accept the slavery thing but your dispute is with Moses' followers having their own particular cultural identity as 'Hebrews' but rather they were a multi-cultural Semitic lot. Could you tell me when you see them identifying as "Hebrew"?

"The AE had a long history with the Levant going back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state. This relationship continued at various levels throughout AE history. The AE themselves in the 1st Dynasty even had outposts in southern Palestine. See also here: Connection Between the 5th Dynasty and the Levant.. The point being that for thousands of years, long before, during, and after the birth of Abraham, Egypt and the Levant/Canaan have had a long history of interaction. No Yahweh."

Likewise with Yahweh: Do you see an origin point for this concept or an era? The Diaspora?

"Moses, if real, is thought to have lived sometime c.14th century BC, in other words the New Kingdom of Egypt. Lots of AE history to be found during this time to help us corroborate the story of Moses of which unfortunately there is none."

Personally, Thanos, I don't have any difficulty with there being no story of Moses on the Egyptian record assuming that the narrative is true. I have always been quite impressed by how the Exodus coincides with Ramses who, during my time in Egypt, greatly impressed me as a narcissist and as such, a person who would seek to make sure that all references to Moses were removed or never cast in stone in the first place - a general idea that seems to accord with what we know about Imhotep the solar pharaoh (or however one spells his name).

"Interestly though, we do have the The Admonitions of Ipuwer which though the copies found date to the New Kingdom, is thought to be older dating to the Middle Kingdom in which Ipuwer is describing an event 400yrs before his time that would place it in the 1st Intermediate period that spanned from c. 2181-2055BC. Obviously long before Moses and even centuries before Abraham and the sojourn to Egypt meaning this is not the story of the Exodus. Yet compare some of the content found with that of the story of Exodus:"

Thanks you for this. The general idea reminds me of the Osiris-Mithras-Jesus-Etc Christos-throughout-the-ages theory. Please don't get me wrong, but I was greatly disappointed to find how scant the evidence was in support of that idea. I'm not against the idea, only I found the academics I had consulted (years ago now) to basically saying that the 'evidence' is far less and far more speculative than advertised by adherents of this line of thought.

But that, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with what you are saying on this particular matter. And when it comes to trying to sort out the arcane past we must, at many times, seek to make sense of things based on limited information. I get that. The only thing I would ask of the "Ipuwer" texts is if you can provide any sense of how large or small the associated documents are. How do they compare, volume-wise, to Exodus?

"Hmm. If we remove the supernatural elements of Yahweh, Moses and the Hebrews, ect, we have a curiously similar tale."

I see your basic idea. but if I may ask, Exodus notwithstanding, do you rule out 'supernatural' events period when it comes to your own belief system?

"Regarding Eli's comment about Abraham and taking Sumerian tales with him, though Abraham would have taken these stories, the versions that came to be found in the Bible were themselves more likely much later copies by way of the Babylonians. Remember Nebuchadnezzar II sacking Judea in 597BC? The books of the Torah were written and compiled in the next few centuries that followed. Small world. The greater point about Abraham, being the patriarch of the Hebrews, is that he came from Mesopotamia that has a long history in which there are several parallels to Biblical stories, like the Flood, written thousands of years before."

Again, Thanos, I thank you for taking the time to detail your views on these matters. I am far less of a 'historian' as many are on this site, and you have done me a real courtesy in taking the time that you have. In recognizing the relative limitation of my lesser commitment to such historical things, I try whenever possible, to apply my intuition in conjunction with what I think of as the more predictable forms of human nature.

With that in mind, I'm wondering how you would answer what I see as a key mystery. It's been quite a while but as I recall, the number of people who are said to have followed Moses around Sinai was around 2 million. When I think of those numbers in modern terms I imagine a large modern city and think thusly.

What if I went to a place of such size and announced one day, falsely in the terms of this hypothetical, that the city in fact owes its origins to some episode like the Exodus - starting with the pharaoh's plagues up to and including the parting of the Red Sea and so on? Would there not be a LOT of resistance to my crazy tale and wouldn't the younger ones seek confirmation or repudiation by the 'elders'? Moreover, and here is where I think of the amount of passion that exists with 'historical' types on this board: In a city of two million should we expect to see some evidence of a resistance movement - if not overtly then covertly? Instead, at least to my understanding, we see absolutely none.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this matter Thanos.

Thank you.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Intelligent Design and Human Origins 2774 MichaelG 29-Dec-17 18:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 583 PhiPIandI 29-Dec-17 20:51
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 396 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 439 rodz111 21-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 469 jjeremybenthem 29-Dec-17 21:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 368 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 504 Aine 29-Dec-17 23:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 398 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 11:12
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 428 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:10
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 396 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:47
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 348 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 17:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 384 Aine 30-Dec-17 17:57
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 387 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 18:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 346 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 18:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 398 M. J. Thomas 30-Dec-17 20:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 376 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 21:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 309 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 22:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 355 Sirfiroth 30-Dec-17 23:35
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 434 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 298 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 322 cladking 30-Dec-17 19:11
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 368 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:04
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 18:46
Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 423 Reagent 30-Dec-17 02:49
Re: Ongoing multidisciplinary studies across academia . . . 308 MichaelG 08-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 429 Thunderbird 30-Dec-17 04:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 369 Susan Doris 30-Dec-17 13:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 363 Thunderbird 31-Dec-17 18:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 339 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 256 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 444 Vanya 30-Dec-17 14:25
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Aine 30-Dec-17 14:48
Not necessarily Christian 356 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:26
Re: Not necessarily Christian 351 Vanya 31-Dec-17 09:06
Re: Not necessarily Christian 296 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 03:48
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 16:59
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 brett z 31-Dec-17 17:16
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 301 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 brett z 31-Dec-17 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 302 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 282 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:07
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 277 brett z 01-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 305 Aine 31-Dec-17 17:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 341 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 324 Aine 31-Dec-17 19:31
What about Multiverse ? 342 Vanya 01-Jan-18 12:19
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 327 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 247 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:13
Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 413 drrayeye 30-Dec-17 22:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 brett z 30-Dec-17 23:04
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 364 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 08:47
, Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 09:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design 307 DUNE 31-Dec-17 10:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 314 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 12:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 386 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 13:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 342 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:13
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 14:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 325 drrayeye 31-Dec-17 14:53
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 15:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 334 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 01:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 297 brett z 01-Jan-18 02:08
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 343 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:11
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 288 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 07:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 316 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:32
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:25
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 342 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:29
driving force 306 brett z 01-Jan-18 18:57
Re: driving force 304 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:59
Re: driving force 295 brett z 01-Jan-18 19:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 323 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 279 brett z 02-Jan-18 03:31
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 352 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 05:15
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 383 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 407 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 295 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 338 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 326 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 15:05
entropy 308 brett z 03-Jan-18 15:45
Re: entropy 321 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 16:22
Re: entropy 311 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:56
Re: entropy 349 brett z 03-Jan-18 21:15
Re: entropy 311 Aham 04-Jan-18 05:07
Re: entropy 326 brett z 04-Jan-18 05:52
Re: entropy 292 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: entropy 267 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:59
Re: entropy 318 brett z 05-Jan-18 17:13
Re: entropy 280 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 18:17
Re: entropy 305 brett z 05-Jan-18 18:21
Re: entropy 292 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:08
Re: entropy 298 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 16:13
snow crystals and life 325 brett z 05-Jan-18 20:52
Re: snow crystals and life 287 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 21:18
Re: snow crystals and life 293 brett z 06-Jan-18 22:08
Re: entropy 338 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 15:34
Information 272 drrayeye 05-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Information 257 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 18:36
Re: Information 301 cladking 06-Jan-18 19:35
Re: Information 342 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 20:14
Re: entropy 289 cladking 05-Jan-18 20:16
Re: entropy 266 Eddie Larry 05-Jan-18 20:32
Re: entropy 347 cladking 05-Jan-18 21:53
Re: entropy 299 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 20:47
Re: entropy 283 cladking 06-Jan-18 21:57
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 312 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:45
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 240 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 03:03
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 346 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 17:07
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 299 Susan Doris 05-Jan-18 19:06
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 cladking 05-Jan-18 19:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 289 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:16
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 241 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 21:26
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 243 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:27
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:55
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 brett z 06-Jan-18 17:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 cladking 06-Jan-18 20:06
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 334 Thunderbird 06-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 260 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 268 Thunderbird 08-Jan-18 05:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 299 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:13
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 271 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:17
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 301 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 17:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 268 cladking 08-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 335 Thunderbird 09-Jan-18 16:55
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 305 cladking 09-Jan-18 20:56
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 268 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 06:59
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 318 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 07:40
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 315 Audrey 10-Jan-18 18:03
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 309 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 18:57
Re: Masonic History 296 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Masonic History 296 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Masonic History 287 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:35
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 282 Susan Doris 10-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 229 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:00
Re: The speed of Thought : ) 272 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:31
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 396 Susan Doris 11-Jan-18 06:42
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 273 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:20
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 342 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 255 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 281 Origyptian 11-Jan-18 06:04
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 398 cladking 11-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 287 Audrey 11-Jan-18 02:26
Re: UBW/nt 270 Thunderbird 11-Jan-18 03:25
Re: Cosmic Parallels ... 313 cladking 10-Jan-18 14:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Thunderbird 02-Jan-18 21:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 21:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 Aine 02-Jan-18 22:59
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 311 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:01
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 333 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 03:14
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 Audrey 02-Jan-18 06:05
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 398 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 13:05
Re: Directed Panspermia 313 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:11
Re: Directed Panspermia 269 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:27
Re: Directed Panspermia 270 Origyptian 05-Jan-18 19:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 382 cladking 31-Dec-17 15:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 255 cladking 02-Jan-18 03:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 03:58
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 225 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:33
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 216 cladking 02-Jan-18 04:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 251 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 259 Origyptian 31-Dec-17 17:10
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 250 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 291 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:56
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 359 Aine 01-Jan-18 03:49
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 08:09
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 09:37
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 290 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 17:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 292 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:28
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 265 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 17:41
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 263 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:17
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 247 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 17:57
It's impossible 241 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:58
Re: It's impossible 255 Origyptian 01-Jan-18 22:22
Re: It's impossible 292 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:40
Re: It's impossible 248 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:32
Re: It's impossible 271 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:42
Re: It's impossible 297 Eddie Larry 01-Jan-18 23:02
Re: It's impossible 283 brett z 01-Jan-18 23:57
Re: It's impossible 273 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 00:15
anthropic principle 395 brett z 02-Jan-18 00:21
Re: anthropic principle 289 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 04:44
Re: anthropic principle 325 brett z 02-Jan-18 12:16
What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 395 Vanya 02-Jan-18 16:19
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 258 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:59
Re: What Primates Teach Us About Being Human 299 Vanya 02-Jan-18 17:14
Re: It's impossible 269 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:46
Re: It's impossible 281 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 15:40
Re: It's impossible 313 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 16:47
Re: It's impossible 263 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: It's impossible 278 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:50
Re: It's impossible 252 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:04
Re: It's impossible 273 Aine 02-Jan-18 18:07
Re: It's impossible 254 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:20
Re: It's impossible 230 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:23
Re: It's impossible 221 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:05
Re: It's impossible 254 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 23:30
Re: It's impossible 269 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:25
Re: It's impossible 337 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 10:12
Re: It's impossible 269 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:36
Re: It's impossible 318 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:28
Re: It's impossible 234 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 04:57
Re: It's impossible 231 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:39
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 301 Audrey 01-Jan-18 21:00
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 21:21
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 238 Audrey 01-Jan-18 22:38
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 296 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 23:26
Re: Bioplasma 259 Thunderbird 04-Jan-18 03:30
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 350 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 10:40
Laugh or cry? 320 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 13:00
Re: Laugh or cry? 344 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 14:21
About time for you to learn about atheism 277 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 17:20
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 267 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 18:03
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 326 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:21
Re: About time for you to learn about atheism 309 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:52
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 20:19
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 320 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 06:54
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 308 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 08:23
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 331 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 08:29
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 Jon Ellison 02-Jan-18 09:18
Re: , Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 11:20
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 350 eyeofhorus33 31-Dec-17 15:39
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 369 eli stills 31-Dec-17 16:56
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 349 cladking 31-Dec-17 17:59
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 335 Susan Doris 31-Dec-17 18:23
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 317 cladking 31-Dec-17 19:49
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 347 magisterchessmutt 31-Dec-17 20:56
But I lack the pictures! n/t 337 cladking 31-Dec-17 21:25
My interpretation 300 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:35
Re: My interpretation 339 Aine 01-Jan-18 02:46
not to me 361 drrayeye 01-Jan-18 02:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 288 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 04:15
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 350 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 05:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 239 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 264 Thanos5150 01-Jan-18 23:12
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 266 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 269 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 236 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 18:55
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 271 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:34
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 233 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 273 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 284 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 02:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 404 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 05:44
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 261 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 05:50
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 285 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 276 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 283 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:32
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 282 Origyptian 02-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 328 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 18:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 379 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 244 eli stills 03-Jan-18 02:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 305 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 23:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 258 eli stills 04-Jan-18 02:11
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 227 Origyptian 04-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 272 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 06:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 321 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 319 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 19:17
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:22
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 274 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 23:25
Kerala 2016 300 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Kerala 2016 260 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 23:38
Re: Kerala 2016 282 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:16
and Back to Nigeria 2017 250 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 05:43
Re: and Back to Nigeria 2017 316 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 16:16
Medjugorje - May 2010 247 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 287 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 285 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:21
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 259 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:58
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 208 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 04:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 234 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 18:49
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 235 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:25
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 258 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 20:51
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 258 Eddie Larry 07-Jan-18 20:59
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 253 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:18
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 314 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 21:42
See ya, Phil 304 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 22:31
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 282 Eddie Larry 08-Jan-18 06:20
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 251 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 270 Jon Ellison 07-Jan-18 21:32
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 238 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 21:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:15
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 252 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 267 PB Bytes 08-Jan-18 03:46
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 324 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:42
Re: Medjugorje - May 2010 270 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 14:57
Proselytizing: Not 304 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 01:26
Re: Proselytizing: Not 319 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 04:08
Re: Proselytizing: Not 330 PB Bytes 09-Jan-18 05:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 298 Origyptian 09-Jan-18 14:05
Re: Proselytizing: Not 333 Susan Doris 09-Jan-18 14:41
13-Year Inquiry 253 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 03:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 257 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 19:00
Re: 13-Year Inquiry 223 PB Bytes 07-Jan-18 19:20
Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 338 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:02
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 296 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 21:43
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 252 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 22:28
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 267 Thanos5150 03-Jan-18 22:51
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 279 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 00:03
Re: Exodus, Hebrews Yahweh etc 299 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 00:58
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 262 eli stills 02-Jan-18 03:01
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 286 Thanos5150 02-Jan-18 06:07
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 eli stills 02-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 306 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-18 16:46
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 303 Thunderbird 01-Jan-18 20:24
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 310 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 330 Aine 02-Jan-18 00:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 309 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 332 Aine 02-Jan-18 01:02
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 01:21
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 348 eli stills 02-Jan-18 17:19
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 307 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:37
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 287 eyeofhorus33 02-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 300 eli stills 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 336 eli stills 01-Jan-18 20:54
Re: Intelligent Design is a form of atheism 260 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:46
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 363 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 03:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 352 Susan Doris 01-Jan-18 06:23
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 306 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 06:45
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 eli stills 01-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 PB Bytes 01-Jan-18 19:02
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 332 MichaelG 02-Jan-18 17:18
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 359 Aine 02-Jan-18 17:44
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 286 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:28
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 343 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:33
Genes Drive "Evolution". 319 cladking 03-Jan-18 15:43
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 225 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:26
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 320 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:38
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 17:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 261 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 299 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 07:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 303 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 322 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:56
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 cladking 03-Jan-18 18:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 354 Aine 03-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 18:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:55
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 cladking 03-Jan-18 20:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 285 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-18 21:12
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 315 Aine 03-Jan-18 23:30
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 282 cladking 04-Jan-18 00:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 264 Archaic 04-Jan-18 02:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 296 cladking 04-Jan-18 03:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 312 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 323 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 15:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 316 Aine 04-Jan-18 15:40
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 318 Thanos5150 04-Jan-18 16:07
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 306 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 288 cladking 04-Jan-18 16:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 270 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:35
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 06-Jan-18 18:37
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 301 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 12:47
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 268 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:28
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:45
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 292 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 16:53
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 254 cladking 08-Jan-18 19:48
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 266 cladking 08-Jan-18 14:59
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 300 cladking 04-Jan-18 15:39
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 299 Vanya 04-Jan-18 16:10
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 311 cladking 04-Jan-18 17:14
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 333 Vanya 04-Jan-18 18:05
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 359 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 18:11
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 293 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:41
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 Vanya 06-Jan-18 19:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 298 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 05:29
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 256 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 17:22
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 276 cladking 06-Jan-18 17:46
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 221 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 304 cladking 07-Jan-18 18:27
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 257 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:52
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 267 Origyptian 07-Jan-18 16:25
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 235 Audrey 08-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 278 Thunderbird 10-Jan-18 21:57
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 204 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 18:00
Re: Genes Drive "Evolution". 290 cladking 03-Jan-18 21:03
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 326 Susan Doris 02-Jan-18 19:06
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 310 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:41
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 18:38
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 320 cladking 04-Jan-18 18:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 276 cladking 02-Jan-18 19:22
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 283 MichaelG 04-Jan-18 16:45
Design makes sense 302 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 19:49
Re: Design makes sense 339 Aine 02-Jan-18 19:59
Re: Design makes sense 260 brett z 02-Jan-18 20:03
Re: Design makes sense 297 Aine 02-Jan-18 20:05
Re: Design makes sense 289 drrayeye 02-Jan-18 20:31
Re: Design makes sense 321 Aine 03-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Design makes sense 309 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 06:05
Plans and the structure of behavior 398 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 09:09
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 277 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 09:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 321 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:26
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 299 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:46
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 261 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 12:38
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 266 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 14:40
Executive Subroutines 274 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 16:09
Re: Executive Subroutines 275 Origyptian 06-Jan-18 01:14
Re: Executive Subroutines 283 cladking 06-Jan-18 01:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:34
Re: Executive Subroutines 256 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 278 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:23
Re: Executive Subroutines 259 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:25
Re: Executive Subroutines 248 cladking 07-Jan-18 02:51
Re: Executive Subroutines 255 Audrey 07-Jan-18 04:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 253 cladking 07-Jan-18 04:53
Re: Executive Subroutines 326 Audrey 08-Jan-18 03:03
Re: Executive Subroutines 247 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:42
Re: Executive Subroutines 260 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 05:45
Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 248 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 06:28
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 277 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 08:36
Not a great start 284 drrayeye 06-Jan-18 10:32
Re: Not a great start 344 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 12:10
Re: Intelligent atheists and ID: Your reading list is long 269 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 283 Audrey 06-Jan-18 06:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 322 Susan Doris 06-Jan-18 09:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 267 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:56
Re: Executive Subroutines 289 Audrey 07-Jan-18 02:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 382 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 07:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 198 cladking 07-Jan-18 14:29
Re: Executive Subroutines 328 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 14:45
Re: Executive Subroutines 237 cladking 07-Jan-18 16:36
Re: Executive Subroutines 267 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 17:54
Re: Executive Subroutines 242 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Executive Subroutines 285 cladking 07-Jan-18 19:52
Re: Executive Subroutines 263 cladking 07-Jan-18 20:15
Re: Executive Subroutines 304 Susan Doris 07-Jan-18 23:32
Re: Executive Subroutines 345 cladking 08-Jan-18 00:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 323 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 06:11
Re: Executive Subroutines 323 cladking 21-Jan-18 02:04
Re: Executive Subroutines 307 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 13:17
Re: Executive Subroutines 309 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 13:39
Re: Executive Subroutines 265 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 16:57
Re: Executive Subroutines 250 cladking 08-Jan-18 17:05
Re: Executive Subroutines 316 Susan Doris 08-Jan-18 17:33
Re: Executive Subroutines 242 cladking 06-Jan-18 15:38
Re: Executive Subroutines 276 Eddie Larry 06-Jan-18 15:52
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 274 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 297 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: Plans and the structure of behavior 329 Aine 03-Jan-18 19:47
If you really want to know 245 drrayeye 04-Jan-18 04:04
Re: If you really want to know 269 Susan Doris 04-Jan-18 06:51
Re: If you really want to know 263 Aine 04-Jan-18 12:07
Re: Design makes sense 356 Susan Doris 03-Jan-18 00:15
Re: Design makes sense 281 cladking 03-Jan-18 16:30
Re: Design makes sense 328 drrayeye 03-Jan-18 19:34
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 329 Vanya 02-Jan-18 20:13
Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 325 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 20:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 317 Aine 02-Jan-18 23:01
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 330 PB Bytes 02-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 280 Aine 03-Jan-18 00:21
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 316 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 01:24
IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 395 Vanya 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 264 Aine 03-Jan-18 17:03
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 358 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:43
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 287 Vanya 03-Jan-18 19:31
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 303 Vanya 04-Jan-18 13:13
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 238 PB Bytes 04-Jan-18 20:22
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 375 Vanya 05-Jan-18 09:15
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 296 PB Bytes 05-Jan-18 20:06
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 407 Vanya 06-Jan-18 14:17
Re: IF .... THEN .... - Random, Mutation, Evolution 250 PB Bytes 06-Jan-18 19:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 293 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:38
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 14:27
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 337 Aine 03-Jan-18 16:29
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 251 Origyptian 03-Jan-18 22:04
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 335 cloister 03-Jan-18 22:14
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 326 cladking 03-Jan-18 17:13
Re: Random mutations and evolution... Intelligent Design and Human Origins 348 PB Bytes 03-Jan-18 17:50
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 243 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:49
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 323 gulsbo 06-Jan-18 19:39
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 265 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 04:48
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 361 gulsbo 08-Jan-18 20:45
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 284 Origyptian 08-Jan-18 21:44
Re: Intelligent Design and...Implementation? 348 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 18:43
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 289 MichaelG 09-Jan-18 21:53
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 303 cladking 09-Jan-18 22:21
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 311 gulsbo 10-Jan-18 19:13
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 224 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:33
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 252 Origyptian 10-Jan-18 22:00
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 300 cladking 11-Jan-18 01:54
Re: Intelligent Design and Human Origins 271 cladking 08-Jan-18 20:20
2 points 308 Warwick 10-Jan-18 18:33
Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 350 cladking 10-Jan-18 20:47
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee n/t 266 Warwick 10-Jan-18 20:58
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 303 cladking 10-Jan-18 21:11
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 295 MichaelG 17-Jan-18 18:26
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 287 cladking 17-Jan-18 18:42
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 266 Audrey 17-Jan-18 23:39
Re: Mebbe it was designed by committee 393 Warwick 17-Jan-18 23:52


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