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R Avry Wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I said "as far as I can tell", meaning I am not
> > "100%" sure, it was "all but", meaning not
> > completely. I base this on countless hours of
> > looking at OK art and writing and not seeing it.
> I
> > also gave an example of an icon that may be
> > conflated with it leaving the possibility it
> may
> > have changed form through the years though I
> > discount this possibility. The only examples
> from
> > the 3D-OK I have seen are Wadi Maghara, one of
> > which Manu linked.
> >
> > But by all means, please give other examples
> you
> > may know of.
>
> Just trying to follow along. :)
>
> You suggest (not 100%, ok)

I am not "suggesting", I am stating "as far as I can tell", given I have not seen every single artifact from this period, that what I am saying, "as far as I can tell", is true. But, again, by all means please provide examples otherwise.

> this tool seems to have
> disappeared from use for 5-6 centuries,

Can you quote me where I said the tool itself disappeared? What I said was:
Quote

Regarding the depictions of the Was sceptre from the MK on, I do not believe they understood what it originally was, its meaning ancient and lost in their time, and warped not only its meaning but its physical form having based their depictions on literal observation unaware it was actually shown in forced perspective.
[Emphasis mine]

What I see is that the representations of the Was Sceptre in later times seem quite distorted from its original intent regardless of whether or not the tool fell out of use at any point in between. Does, say, this look like a surveying tool to you:


Having any relation to this:


It seems quite suggestive that regardless of the continued use of the tool, or not, if it even was a surveying tool as we have no idea, the understanding of the iconography changed dramatically in later times becoming something else entirely. The MK was certainly a "revivalist" period in which much of the older iconography seemed to be reinvigorated and to some degree reinterpreted.

And actually, it's not just that its use from the 3rd Dynasty to MK is sparse, almost non-existent, the same is true before this time with the early Dynastic examples I show some of the only ones found which even then is an assumption on my part that others in fact were found. So to that end, if anything, I would amend my previous statement by saying that it did not in fact go out of disuse in the 3rd Dynasty-MK, but was never prominent to begin with to where by the MK, not only was its original meaning lost, but was reinvented as an integral part of the AE symbolic cannon.

> and base
> this on the amount of available images you've
> seen. Is this correct?

Which is no small thing given what is available to me is not necessarily obtained by most others, but by all means you or anyone else please provide examples otherwise.

> Meanwhile, should we disregard the absolute
> obsession with the sun and stars during this
> 'missing' time frame, in which activities
> themselves would suggest they would have continued
> to employ these tools?

Not at all.

> So they completely forgot
> about this item only to stumble across the same
> applicable use centuries later? Thus, my doubt for
> your suggestion (regardless of how images I can
> summon) comes from ample testimony of explicit sky
> worship throughout.
>
> What are your thoughts?

Among other things at the moment:

1) We have no idea what it originally was. A surveying tool seems practical to me, but I concede it is just a possibility.

2) Its use prior to the MK is unusually sparse compared to the prominence given to it from the MK onward.

3) Its meaning and importance from the MK onward seems clearly at odds with what came before implying it took on a meaning it otherwise did not originally have which suggests to me they were not fully aware and/or warped its original intent.

And as far as your "regardless of how [many] images I can summon", being none, does not mean its lack of use prior to the MK does not require explanation as well as does the starkly different representation, apparently "meaning", of it from before and after this period. I think your logic actually goes a long way to suggesting it was not the tool we both seem to think it was and instead something else entirely-something whose meaning could be forgotten and/or warped from its original intent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24-Oct-17 03:20 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2982 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 841 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 940 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 858 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 779 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 814 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 780 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 825 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 830 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 748 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 801 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 731 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 915 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 788 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 1113 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 752 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 771 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 736 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 786 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 754 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 758 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 819 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 739 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 730 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 750 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 785 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 764 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 739 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 1137 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 732 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 732 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 817 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 696 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 715 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 754 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 748 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 780 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 722 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 735 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 980 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 695 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 875 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 683 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 762 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 666 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 709 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 713 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 690 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 715 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 774 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 706 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 831 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 828 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 746 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 817 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 909 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 777 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 736 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 682 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 696 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 796 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 843 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 689 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 693 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 788 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 696 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 683 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 682 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 731 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 767 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 918 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 672 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 804 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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