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Hello Madeleine.

MDaines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy research on internet shows that it wasn’t
> only Thoth linked to this tool. I have no
> specialist knowledge of ancient Egyptian imagery,
> and haven’t gone into the subject to any depth.
> Perhaps the above hypothesis has already been put
> forward and rejected thanks to substantiated
> arguments unknown to me. But I would be
> interested to know. Thanks.

Djet, 1st Dynasty:


Helwan, 1st Dynasty:


2nd Dynasty:


Middle Kingdom:


New Kingdom:


Late Period:


To my knowledge the earliest depiction of the Was sceptre was in the 1st Dynasty. What is interesting to me is that it all but disappears from 3rd Dynasty through Old Kingdom iconography where at some point in the Middle Kingdom and onward becomes part and parcel of AE symbolism seemingly twisted into a different form, namely with an animal head. There is a staff depicted in the 3rd-OK, which kind of sorta looks like it, but to me not really especially considering there was no confusion from the MK onward. Saqqra, 3rd Dynasty. 4th symbol over from top left:

Large.

This may be conflated with a version of the Was sceptre but I think it's a stretch.

Regardless, if you look at the archaic depictions, I do not believe the top "t" is meant to be at an angle on the same plane as the the "prong" at the bottom, but rather is depicted in forced perspective. Meaning in reality the "t" is on a horizontal and parallel plane to the prong. Imagine this: T : with the open prong facing us on the bottom.

Regarding the depictions of the Was sceptre from the MK on, I do not believe they understood what it originally was, its meaning ancient and lost in their time, and warped not only its meaning but its physical form having based their depictions on literal observation unaware it was actually shown in forced perspective.

Of further interest is that while the Was sceptre, ankh, djed pillar are all found in the 1st Dynasty, you will not find them depicted on any of the palettes or tokens associated with the first kings implying whatever the Was scepter was that was so important to Djet was not shared by those before him. Again:


I'm not sure what this disconnect means, but it means something.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that the Was sceptre was originally a tool related to either astronomy and/or surveying and the meaning it had to later AE from the MK onward had little or nothing to do with its original purpose. I think further evidence of this is that as far as I can tell the iconography of the Was sceptre was all but abandoned from the 3rd Dynasty-OK which makes for quite a leap of dormancy in understanding.

As far as any relation to weaving, I know of none in any period and unless we have completely missed the supreme monumental importance of weaving in 3,000yrs of AE culture, it stands to reason it would not be prominently displayed as a symbol of power for the pharaohs, gods, and apparently mysticism in general.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22-Oct-17 23:22 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2974 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 837 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 937 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 855 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 776 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 812 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 776 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 821 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 826 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 744 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 796 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 727 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 910 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 784 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 1108 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 749 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 767 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 733 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 783 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 751 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 755 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 816 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 736 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 726 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 747 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 781 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 761 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 734 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 1134 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 728 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 729 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 813 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 694 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 711 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 751 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 745 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 777 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 718 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 731 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 977 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 691 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 871 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 680 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 758 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 663 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 705 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 709 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 686 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 712 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 769 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 703 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 826 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 825 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 743 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 815 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 906 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 772 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 732 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 679 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 694 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 792 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 830 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 686 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 688 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 784 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 693 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 680 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 680 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 728 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 763 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 914 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 668 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 801 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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