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Hello Madeleine.

MDaines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy research on internet shows that it wasn’t
> only Thoth linked to this tool. I have no
> specialist knowledge of ancient Egyptian imagery,
> and haven’t gone into the subject to any depth.
> Perhaps the above hypothesis has already been put
> forward and rejected thanks to substantiated
> arguments unknown to me. But I would be
> interested to know. Thanks.

Djet, 1st Dynasty:


Helwan, 1st Dynasty:


2nd Dynasty:


Middle Kingdom:


New Kingdom:


Late Period:


To my knowledge the earliest depiction of the Was sceptre was in the 1st Dynasty. What is interesting to me is that it all but disappears from 3rd Dynasty through Old Kingdom iconography where at some point in the Middle Kingdom and onward becomes part and parcel of AE symbolism seemingly twisted into a different form, namely with an animal head. There is a staff depicted in the 3rd-OK, which kind of sorta looks like it, but to me not really especially considering there was no confusion from the MK onward. Saqqra, 3rd Dynasty. 4th symbol over from top left:

Large.

This may be conflated with a version of the Was sceptre but I think it's a stretch.

Regardless, if you look at the archaic depictions, I do not believe the top "t" is meant to be at an angle on the same plane as the the "prong" at the bottom, but rather is depicted in forced perspective. Meaning in reality the "t" is on a horizontal and parallel plane to the prong. Imagine this: T : with the open prong facing us on the bottom.

Regarding the depictions of the Was sceptre from the MK on, I do not believe they understood what it originally was, its meaning ancient and lost in their time, and warped not only its meaning but its physical form having based their depictions on literal observation unaware it was actually shown in forced perspective.

Of further interest is that while the Was sceptre, ankh, djed pillar are all found in the 1st Dynasty, you will not find them depicted on any of the palettes or tokens associated with the first kings implying whatever the Was scepter was that was so important to Djet was not shared by those before him. Again:


I'm not sure what this disconnect means, but it means something.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that the Was sceptre was originally a tool related to either astronomy and/or surveying and the meaning it had to later AE from the MK onward had little or nothing to do with its original purpose. I think further evidence of this is that as far as I can tell the iconography of the Was sceptre was all but abandoned from the 3rd Dynasty-OK which makes for quite a leap of dormancy in understanding.

As far as any relation to weaving, I know of none in any period and unless we have completely missed the supreme monumental importance of weaving in 3,000yrs of AE culture, it stands to reason it would not be prominently displayed as a symbol of power for the pharaohs, gods, and apparently mysticism in general.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22-Oct-17 23:22 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 2887 MDaines 22-Oct-17 11:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 799 cladking 22-Oct-17 13:32
Egyptian Thoth gave technology around the world 896 Howard West 22-Oct-17 15:04
Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 821 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 740 Howard West 23-Oct-17 00:58
Djet's Comb 776 MDaines 22-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Djet's Comb 735 MDaines 26-Oct-17 18:20
Re: Djet's Comb 784 Manu 26-Oct-17 20:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 790 cladking 22-Oct-17 15:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 708 MDaines 22-Oct-17 16:50
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 760 cladking 22-Oct-17 18:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 691 MDaines 22-Oct-17 19:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 874 Thanos5150 22-Oct-17 23:21
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 748 MDaines 23-Oct-17 08:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 1064 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:03
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 714 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:54
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 731 Thanos5150 23-Oct-17 22:29
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 694 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 23:30
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 747 Manu 24-Oct-17 01:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 715 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 02:06
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 717 R Avry Wilson 24-Oct-17 02:59
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 780 eyeofhorus33 24-Oct-17 09:46
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 700 Thanos5150 24-Oct-17 16:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 689 Manu 23-Oct-17 01:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 712 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 745 Manu 23-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 723 MDaines 23-Oct-17 15:39
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 697 Manu 23-Oct-17 16:35
The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 1097 MDaines 24-Oct-17 11:21
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 692 Manu 24-Oct-17 15:34
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 692 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:37
Re: The Ankh, the Djed, and the Spinnekrok 729 Manu 25-Oct-17 14:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 654 Reagent 23-Oct-17 01:57
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 676 cladking 23-Oct-17 02:40
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 712 Reagent 23-Oct-17 03:58
Tayet 709 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 735 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 04:27
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 684 MDaines 23-Oct-17 13:49
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 696 R Avry Wilson 23-Oct-17 19:50
Isler’s Gnomon Progression 931 Dr. Troglodyte 23-Oct-17 22:25
Re: Isler’s Gnomon Progression 656 MDaines 25-Oct-17 08:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 832 Manu 23-Oct-17 21:12
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 642 MDaines 25-Oct-17 15:36
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 722 Manu 25-Oct-17 19:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 629 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 02:37
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 669 Manu 26-Oct-17 04:14
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 675 R Avry Wilson 26-Oct-17 05:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 648 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 675 Thanos5150 26-Oct-17 05:41
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 731 Manu 26-Oct-17 06:07
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 666 cladking 26-Oct-17 13:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 787 Manu 26-Oct-17 14:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 789 Broker 31-Oct-17 01:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 707 MDaines 31-Oct-17 11:26
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 781 Broker 31-Oct-17 19:33
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 871 Broker 31-Oct-17 23:45
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 734 MDaines 01-Nov-17 13:52
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 697 Broker 02-Nov-17 00:13
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 642 MDaines 02-Nov-17 11:19
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 655 Broker 03-Nov-17 02:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 755 Broker 03-Nov-17 18:31
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 753 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 06:08
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 649 MDaines 02-Nov-17 12:05
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 650 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:25
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 746 Thanos5150 02-Nov-17 16:43
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 657 Broker 03-Nov-17 03:44
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 643 Thanos5150 03-Nov-17 03:55
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 641 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:32
Re: Was Egyptian Thoth the Great Weaver? 691 Broker 03-Nov-17 04:36
Why is it important? 727 MDaines 04-Nov-17 10:57
Perhaps it was Isis! 818 Eddie Larry 04-Nov-17 15:59
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 632 MDaines 05-Nov-17 17:57
Re: Perhaps it was Isis! 767 Eddie Larry 05-Nov-17 18:17


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