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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2148 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 617 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 471 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 661 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 492 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 430 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 400 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 399 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 399 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 350 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 377 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 383 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 334 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 381 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 356 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 372 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 369 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 313 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 306 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 426 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 281 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 327 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 291 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 385 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 392 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 487 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 274 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 379 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 403 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 332 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 375 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 391 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 362 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 431 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 433 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 339 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 341 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 284 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 313 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 320 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 289 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 320 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 384 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 326 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 309 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 460 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 311 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 390 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 358 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 490 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 381 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 323 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 271 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 366 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 333 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 296 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 474 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 320 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 323 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 299 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 287 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 356 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 298 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 310 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 325 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 367 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 298 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 350 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 304 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 368 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 246 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 441 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 351 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 253 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 279 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 248 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 466 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 316 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 282 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 359 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 277 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 466 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 305 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 334 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 346 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 310 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 657 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 330 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 308 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 566 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 347 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 310 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 332 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 367 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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