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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do not consider systematically that any spot
> between ruts is a trace of hauling animal track.
> It seems clear that in many cases, there are no
> traces between the ruts pairs. On the other hand,
> in other places in Malta (that I saw only on
> photos)they are clearly visible. So to me, we can
> discuss until end of times, the point remains
> open.
> In Malta, it seems that you can find evidence of
> cart animal hauling as well as evidence of no such
> animal traction. In some places (in book "Cart
> ruts and their impact on Maltese landscape", photo
> pages 34-35) you can see both types in the same
> area, with and without. So what?

I, too, agree that the mystery remains. My only point in rebuttal is that all of the physical evidence must be taken into account, not just the ruts that show a shallower erosion between them. And so while some tracks that include erosion between them might imply power supplieid by beasts of burden, we also must be able to explain why other tracks show no such erosion between them. My suggestion was that the tracks with no erosion between them implies that it wasn't necessary to include beasts of burden as the power supply, and so perhaps the tracks that DO have erosion between them might simply indicate that humans used those tracks as guidelines to delineate human walking paths that were established long after the "cart ruts" were formed, and that those tracks both with and without a central eroded region might not really be any different in character.


> I only said that in the case of Clapham Junction,
> which I consider to be an ancient quarry, it is
> quite inconclusive considering how messy and
> eroded is the whole terrain, including the ruts
> themselves.
> In many cases, you just cannot ask "animal central
> tracks? yes or no". Just random holes, bumps and
> cracks.
>
> This is what you see when starting visiting the
> site from the public parking after entrance, at
> the level of "eastfield farmhouse", no clear
> patterns and conclusive evidences (in addition you
> constantly have to look where you put the feet):
> [www.electricyouniverse.com]

However, other tracks are present in less eroded areas of bedrock and there seems to be no clear erosion between them despite the far smoother surface which would more likely show such erosion if beasts of burden were routinely used to haul such heavy loads.


> But this explanation suits only in a quarry with
> moderate slopes like Clapham Junction. Elsewhere,
> I just can't say. Do you understand my point?
> Did they have "railruts" hand cars? :)
> [www.railroadhandcar.com]

I think I understand. But this still doesn't seem to address the apparent non-horizontal slope of those "benches" with the cross striations, it doesn't address the apparent lack of wider tracks on curves to accommodate the wheel radius, it doesn't address why some tracks on horizontal ground show erosion between them while others do not, and it doesn't address the sidewall grinding that would occur on wheels that supported a heavy load along deep ruts in bedrock.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2074 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 578 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 437 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 616 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 461 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 394 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 361 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 369 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 365 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 318 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 344 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 348 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 309 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 350 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 326 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 340 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 333 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 270 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 393 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 244 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 296 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 260 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 352 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 357 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 455 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 245 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 350 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 373 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 344 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 358 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 324 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 397 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 302 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 302 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 236 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 283 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 261 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 353 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 256 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 427 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 276 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 317 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 456 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 345 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 242 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 357 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 425 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 284 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 281 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 265 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 251 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 320 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 260 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 278 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 318 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 273 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 271 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 377 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 321 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 250 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 220 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 307 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 433 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 280 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 414 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 256 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 296 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 296 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 263 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 278 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 597 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 275 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 526 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 316 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 279 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 290 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 327 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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