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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2145 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 616 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 470 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 660 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 491 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 429 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 399 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 398 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 398 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 349 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 374 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 382 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 333 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 379 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 355 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 372 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 368 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 312 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 305 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 425 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 280 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 325 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 290 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 384 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 391 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 486 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 273 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 377 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 402 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 331 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 374 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 390 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 361 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 430 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 433 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 338 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 340 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 283 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 312 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 319 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 319 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 383 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 325 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 307 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 458 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 389 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 356 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 309 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 489 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 379 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 322 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 270 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 365 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 332 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 295 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 397 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 473 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 298 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 286 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 355 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 309 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 324 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 366 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 290 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 350 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 303 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 366 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 300 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 287 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 439 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 351 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 252 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 279 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 465 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 315 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 281 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 358 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 276 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 465 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 304 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 332 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 345 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 308 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 656 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 329 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 341 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 307 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 565 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 346 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 308 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 331 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 366 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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