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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Jon Ellison
> Do I understand you correctly?
> Are you saying that the ruts were pre carved and
> constructed. A designed and constructed
> rut-way?

>
> At Clapham Junction I think that it has been the
> case. But in my opinion, no full carving was
> necessary, only shallow traces to open a guiding
> path, necessary a compromise to carry heavy loads
> along a track making an angle in relation to
> maximum slope. This in order to reduce braking
> force, so generating a moderate side strength of
> deflection of trajectory. Rails were here to
> control the lateral deviation. Engineer's
> compromise.
>
Quote
The same
> What caused the vehicles to follow exactly the
> same route time and time again?

>
> Quarry work organization (In Clapham Junction)
>
Quote
Jon..
> How were they navigated prior to the
> development of the ruts without defined roadways
> or choke points??

>
> Before opening of the quarry, they didn't.
>
Quote
Jon said
> Why do we see central depressions in only a
> very few places, yet rut tracks in 100% of
> places?

>
> In Clapham Junction, quite all the terrain is so
> eroded, disturbed, full of totally random bumps,
> holes and cracks, looking so old, that you cannot
> honestly say what was inside the vast majority of
> tracks pairs, and so the point is unconclusive to
> me.
>
Quote
Jon
> Even if the loaded journey was downhill the
> empty vehicle would need to make an uphill return
> journey.

>
> The uphill return journey was performed as you
> said with an empty vehicle, and along a slope,
> thus creating only a moderate pressure on cart
> ruts, and needing limited hauling power.

Regardless of how wide each individual rutway track was hewn, assuming the cart wheels were narrower than that original rut width, repeated cart runs would form a narrow trough withing the trough and wheels would wear out quickly and/or sieze due to friction along the side margins. This would require further hewing to widen the deepest aspects of the worn troughs which only allows them to further erode narrow deeper ruts as additional cart runs ensued, etc, etc. It would get to the point where the ruts were too deep so that it would be necessary to abandon that pair of ruts and create another shallow path and have the entire process start all over again. So why not just lay blocks of stone atop the road and replace them as they wear down? Furthermore, such carved rutway grooves mandate that every cart have the same wheelbase regardless of the load. What's the practical value of such a harsh restriction? Also, how many cart runs are required at what load to erode the rut down, say, 1" into the bedrock? How does that compare to the "animal tracks" between the ruts?

From an engineering standpoint, rathat than carve two separate tracks into the bedrock and require all carts to follow those specific tracks thereby incorporating a deliberate, early onset obsolerscence due to the focused wear and tear, why not just hone a broad flattened surface across a wider path such that carts of varying size and wheelbase would be allowed to follow slightly different runways so that the road would last far longer due to each cart following slightly different paths along that track, just as is the case with modern roadways?

The notion of a carved rutway to accommodate animal-drawn wheeled carts really makes no logical sense to me from a practical or engineering perspective.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28-Nov-17 15:55 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2074 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 578 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 437 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 616 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 462 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 394 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 361 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 369 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 365 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 318 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 344 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 348 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 309 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 350 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 326 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 340 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 333 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 283 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 270 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 393 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 244 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 296 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 260 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 352 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 357 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 455 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 245 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 350 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 373 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 344 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 324 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 397 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 302 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 302 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 236 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 283 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 253 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 261 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 353 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 256 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 427 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 277 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 359 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 317 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 268 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 456 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 346 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 242 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 357 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 425 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 284 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 282 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 265 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 251 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 321 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 260 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 278 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 292 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 318 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 273 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 271 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 257 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 377 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 250 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 220 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 307 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 433 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 280 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 322 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 414 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 256 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 238 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 296 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 235 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 263 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 278 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 597 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 275 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 526 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 316 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 279 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 290 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 327 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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