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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before to answer to you on your point, hereunder
> is a post to Harry Wolf to expose the geological
> question raising about Malta ruts: About 90% of
> them run on the most recent limestone layer, the
> Coralline, whereas they are only a few on older
> and softer limestone layer, namely Globigerina.
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124753#msg-1124753]Malta geology and cart
> ruts distribution correspondence[/url]
> And after, please see my answer to Jon to clarify
> my views and state of mind:
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 20291,1124920#msg-1124920]Answer to Jon
> Ellison[/url]
> To me, even if I am not opposed to the theory of
> very, very old imprints on soft clay that turn out
> solid afterwards, I don't think it can apply to
> the case of Malta, altough they must also be old,
> before catastrophes in the Mediterranean, may be
> contemporary of Atlantis, not impossible to me.
> Considering that more wet paleo climate may have
> helped the wear of tracks, I am thinking here to
> Robert Soch claims about the water erosion of
> Gizah Sphinx.
> Now, to answer your question: [quote="Tsurugi
> question:"]
> That said, your observations of quarry features
> around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question:
> is there anything you noticed that definitely
> makes the quarry features and the ruts
> contemporary?
> [/quote]
> I cannot say definitely, not being a geologist,
> nor a quarry expert. But being an engineer
> familiar with technical and production questions,
> Clapham Junction looked to me a very old (stones
> wear, ground erosion) and well organised quarry.
> In the beginning it seems just to be a mess with
> random "cart ruts". And little by little you begin
> to understand the overall pattern, but it comes
> gradually.
> On the sides of the ruts areas are clear patches
> of rock extraction patterns, but they don't lie
> beside ruts and maybe are younger than ruts. Maybe
> Punic, Greek, Roman.
> But in the end I realized that in ruts areas we
> were walking on man-made artificially levelled
> parallel strips of rocky terrain, all flat (and
> inclined), all of same limited height and width.
> The idea of cutting benches became pregnant. And
> then I realized that they were all crossed by
> parallel cart ruts, and the crossing angle was
> constant. It seem to me that cutting benches were
> following geological sedimentary layers to
> optimize rock quality, whereas ruts direction was
> defined to optimize a constant tracks slope.
> No evidence of course.

Hi Mike..
No Worries..

One of the problems I have with the "Ruts cut by repeated traffic" idea is that where we see genuine cart ruts . Roman etc.. they are usually the result of the vehicles being constricted by a built road, side walls or a natural choke point. Not meandering all over the landscape. It would take the passing of probably hundreds of carts to even begin to define a cart track which could be subsequently followed by more carts. Of course this is entirely understandable in the case of a road or choke point as above.
Question is.. How do the meandering cart tracks on rock get started for others to follow? How did cart number two follow exactly cart number one? and so on until there was something well enough defined to follow.
One of the reasons why I currently think that the ruts are not the result high intensity, repeated traffic on hard stuff.
Rather low frequency traffic on soft stuff that is deliberately trying to avoid previous tracks.. For example driving a 4X4 over a deeply rutted, un-constricted area, you tend to try to stay out of the ruts due to your axle height and ground clearance issues. Resulting in sets of tracks meandering all over the place. The "Ski Resort" effect.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2145 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 617 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 470 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 661 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 492 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 429 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 400 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 399 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 399 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 350 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 374 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 383 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 334 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 380 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 356 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 372 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 369 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 313 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 305 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 426 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 281 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 325 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 291 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 385 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 391 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 486 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 273 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 377 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 403 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 332 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 375 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 391 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 361 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 430 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 433 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 339 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 340 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 283 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 313 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 320 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 278 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 319 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 383 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 325 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 307 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 458 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 390 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 356 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 310 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 490 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 380 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 323 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 271 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 366 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 333 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 296 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 473 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 323 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 299 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 286 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 356 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 298 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 309 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 324 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 367 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 297 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 290 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 350 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 304 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 367 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 245 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 300 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 439 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 351 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 252 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 279 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 247 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 342 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 465 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 316 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 282 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 358 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 319 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 277 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 465 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 305 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 334 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 345 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 266 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 302 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 308 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 343 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 656 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 330 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 341 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 307 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 565 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 347 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 309 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 332 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 366 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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