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Mike D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answers:
> In their document "The cart ruts of Malta: an
> applied geomorphology approach",Derek Mottershead,
> Alastair Pearson & Martin Schaefer exposed
> scientific measurements that show how wood can
> wear out limestone. Think also how wood can be
> hardened with fire, and that cart wooden wheels
> can be replaced in a good maintenance process.

Thanks for the link. It was interesting how they "reverse-engineered" the carts from their determinations, but the whole paper is an example of reverse engineering of a kind seen all too often in archaeology(and seen plenty in "fringe" archaeology as well): working backwards from a conclusion toward observed data. In this case the conclusion is the ruts were made in stone by repeated passages of primitive wooden carts. All of the calculations and data gathering outlined in the paper were made with this conclusion in mind.

This doesn't mean the conclusion is incorrect. It just means that there could be data that falsifies the conclusion that the authors did not see, because they weren't looking for it. Confirmation bias, in other words.

For example, I was hoping there would be a geomorphological examination of the matrix of rock immediately below and to the sides of the ruts, and comparison to the matrix of a control(similar rock, sans ruts), like what is done with fossilized footprints. The matrix around and under a genuine print displays heightened density and lateral displacement, showing that the rock in which the print is found was in a semi-liquid state at the time the print was made. To my disappointment, such a test did not even seem to occur to the authors of the paper.
But why should it? The possibility the ruts were made before the rock hardened was the farthest thing from their minds because they already had their conclusions. Confirmation bias.

It's unfortunate, because such a test would definitively answer the question of whether the ruts were made before or after the rock hardened. If no compression and lateral displacement is evident in the rock material around the ruts, they were not made when the rock was soft, it's as simple as that. Yet such a study continues to not be made. Why?


As to the calculations made by the authors of the paper in support of their conclusion, I am suspicious of the "stress concentration factor" by which they magnified the erosive effects of cart wheels by a factor of ten. That seems ridiculous imho?? When removed from the calculation, carts carrying loads of a minimum of 6 tons or twelve thousand pounds is required before any "erosion by wheel" would take place, if their other assertions and methods are assumed to be correct...

....which brings me to my final point re: the paper. They concluded that on the stone of Clapham Junction, the passage of a single unladen cart was sufficient to "erode" the rock and begin to produce ruts. Why didn't they demonstrate this?? One run of a single unladen cart would take a few minutes at most. Yet they did not do it, nor has it been done by anyone else. Why?




> Then, we may infer that quarries remained in usage
> during bronze age, punic, greek and roman eras,
> allowing usage of metal rimmed wheels which
> deepened the tracks to a limit.
> The presence of punic tombs cut right across in
> the way of cart ruts, so interrupting them, shows
> that ruts existed before maybe Phoenicians.
> The fact that they run underwater and off cliffs
> shows that they preceeded the catastrophes in the
> Mediterranean, maybe the same which damaged the
> temples, or even before. We are now dealing with
> several thousand of years.


Even with metal-rimmed wheels, there is still the problem of ox-drawn carts following the same path so precisely, and repeating it enough times as to make deep ruts which their wheels could not escape. This is the process which I feel needs to be demonstrated. IMO, it won't be, because it is ludicrous. This is ignored only because alternatives are altogether unpalatable to mainstream thinking.


That said, your observations of quarry features around rut "hubs" is very interesting. Question: is there anything you noticed that definitely makes the quarry features and the ruts contemporary?

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Clapham Junction Malta 2074 Rstevens1701 16-Oct-17 15:26
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 578 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 18:45
this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 436 Racho 16-Oct-17 22:45
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 615 Tsurugi 17-Oct-17 04:55
Not carts. 461 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 07:14
Re: Not carts. 393 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:00
Re: Not carts. 361 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 20:17
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 369 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 07:28
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 364 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 08:29
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 317 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 15:08
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 344 Jon Ellison 17-Oct-17 16:56
ships on land 348 molder 17-Oct-17 22:43
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 308 molder 18-Oct-17 12:22
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 350 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 13:00
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 325 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 17:23
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 340 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 18:26
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 333 Jon Ellison 18-Oct-17 19:01
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 282 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:44
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 269 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:36
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 393 molder 08-Nov-17 10:34
Re: ships on land thousands of slaves dug tracks at corinth 243 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 05:55
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 296 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 01:53
Re: this is at odds with Newearth/Russian scientist findings/conclusions 260 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:47
Black Tracks 352 Barbelo 19-Oct-17 01:59
Re: Black Tracks 357 randompHactor 19-Oct-17 02:16
Re: Black Tracks 454 Barbelo 21-Oct-17 00:20
Re: Black Tracks 244 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 03:51
Turkey Tracks 350 Barbelo 17-Oct-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 372 Origyptian 17-Oct-17 23:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 02:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 343 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 02:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 358 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 03:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 324 Origyptian 18-Oct-17 04:22
Re: Turkey Tracks 398 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 05:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 396 Barbelo 18-Oct-17 23:54
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 302 Jon Ellison 19-Oct-17 01:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 2 301 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 19:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 235 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 04:07
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 05:00
Re: Turkey Tracks 282 Tsurugi 07-Nov-17 18:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 288 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 19:15
Re: Turkey Tracks 252 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 19:20
Re: Turkey Tracks 260 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:03
Re: Turkey Tracks 286 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 20:12
Re: Turkey Tracks 353 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 20:34
Re: Turkey Tracks 290 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 21:21
Re: Turkey Tracks 279 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:44
Re: Turkey Tracks 255 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 22:51
Re: Turkey Tracks 426 Origyptian 07-Nov-17 22:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 276 Jon Ellison 07-Nov-17 23:52
Re: Turkey Tracks 358 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:38
Re: Turkey Tracks 316 Jon Ellison 08-Nov-17 09:58
Re: Turkey Tracks 267 Tsurugi 09-Nov-17 02:40
Re: Turkey Tracks 456 Jon Ellison 09-Nov-17 08:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 345 Tsurugi 25-Nov-17 08:10
Re: Turkey Tracks 287 Mike D 26-Nov-17 16:57
Re: Turkey Tracks 241 Jon Ellison 26-Nov-17 18:08
Re: Turkey Tracks 328 Mike D 27-Nov-17 09:47
Re: Turkey Tracks 299 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:16
Re: Turkey Tracks 266 Barbelo 07-Nov-17 21:26
Re: Turkey Tracks 357 Tsurugi 08-Nov-17 08:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Anonymous User 07-Nov-17 22:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 425 Mike D 25-Nov-17 13:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 284 molder 25-Nov-17 20:51
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 280 Mike D 26-Nov-17 12:46
The Diolkos 265 molder 26-Nov-17 21:36
Re: The Diolkos 251 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 320 Mike D 26-Nov-17 13:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 258 Tsurugi 27-Nov-17 09:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 277 Mike D 27-Nov-17 10:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 291 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 11:07
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 318 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:27
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 272 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-17 18:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 265 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 256 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 11:03
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 290 Mike D 28-Nov-17 11:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Jon Ellison 28-Nov-17 13:43
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 321 Mike D 28-Nov-17 14:55
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 16:05
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 270 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:22
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 03:16
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 376 Mike D 29-Nov-17 09:54
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 320 Origyptian 29-Nov-17 15:06
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 221 Mike D 30-Nov-17 11:25
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 250 Jon Ellison 30-Nov-17 12:41
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 219 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 13:56
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 307 Mike D 30-Nov-17 14:11
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 432 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 15:32
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 280 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:49
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 249 Mike D 28-Nov-17 18:28
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 321 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 04:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 286 Mike D 28-Nov-17 10:46
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 244 Origyptian 27-Nov-17 15:48
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 413 Mike D 27-Nov-17 16:40
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 255 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 05:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 295 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:50
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 237 Origyptian 28-Nov-17 15:34
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 295 Mike D 29-Nov-17 18:23
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 234 Origyptian 30-Nov-17 05:15
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 262 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 05:09
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 276 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:44
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 301 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:18
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 597 Audrey 28-Nov-17 03:14
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 287 Mike D 28-Nov-17 09:39
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 288 Tsurugi 28-Nov-17 18:30
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 275 molder 28-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 526 molder 18-Nov-17 22:20
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 315 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:35
Re: Clapham Junction Malta 278 Mike D 23-Nov-17 21:46
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 289 molder 30-Nov-17 05:22
Re: Chariot Tracks on The Streets of Pompeii 326 Mike D 30-Nov-17 10:59


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