> R Avry Wilson Wrote:
> > Modern translations of ancient
> > Egyptian texts can never be 'perfect', but they
> > can be regarded as generally fluent. Thus,
> > Mercer can provide ample opportunity for study,
> > the works should not the basis upon which any
> > intrepid 'glypher' should rely.
> > Citation: Allen, T. George. “Journal of Near
> > Eastern Studies.” Journal of Near Eastern
> > Studies, vol. 13, no. 2, 1954, pp. 119–120
> You left out all the good parts of Allen's
> "The more numerous the scholars who study them,
> the better shall we understand these ancient
> In other words he's suggesting that understanding
> ancient language is impossible through mere
> translation. The religion and magic is so
> remarkably complex it will forever only be
> understandable by scholars and Egyptologists. I
> wonder why anyone would publish a translation at
> But my favorite is the next page where he says
> that Mercer mistranslated the German "stairs" as
> "ramp". I knew this all along without knowing the
> source of the word "ramp". I also knew the word
> "ramp" isn't attested from the great pyramid
> building age at all and now I know it's unattested
> from the old kingdom as well.
> Thanks. ;)
Except later research shows and you knew about this in 2014.
Lcooper replying to Cladking: [www.hallofmaat.com]
Although I am well aware it is unlikely to be of any avail for me to again correct you in this errant belief of yours, I yet feel compelled to respond, if only to keep the record straight. As I have mentioned to you before, the word "t3-rdw" (earth-stairs) is presently understood to have had the meaning of “ramp” during the Old Kingdom period. See Hannig, Agyptisches Worterbuch I, 1404. The word appears a number of times in the Pyramid Texts. Furthermore, I believe that by extension in many “accession texts” the word “rdw” alone was used by scribes to simply mean “ramp” and not “stairs”. For one example out of many, I point to Utt. 674 where the word appears with the S42 “sekhem” determinative placed in a horizontal position – with its long handle looking for all the world like a ramp leading up to a temple platform. See line1999 in Sethe v. II, p. 483 here [www.lib.uchicago.edu] I add that in certain contexts “w3t”, the word for “road” or “way”, was apparently also understood to mean “ramp”. See, for instance, Utt. 667A, where Faulkner (AE P.T.’s, p. 281) translates - “he throws open for you the doors of the firmament, he makes a road (w3t) for you that you may ascend by means of it...”. I could go on with further examples, but the point is that you have no grounds to claim that there is no attestation for the word “ramp” during the pyramid age. You do a disservice to the weight of your own arguments, and to that of your own credibility, by doing so.
Additionally we have 2014 discussion of this
I had replied to an earlier similar statement that > you made by opining that various documented words > may have been used by the OK scribes to express > the sense of a ramped access. I have since done a > little checking and it would appear that my > instincts had me on the right track - something of > a pun intended. > > I had mentioned that "stairway" (rdw/rwdw) may > have been one of the terms at times used with this > sense, Faulkner, in his Pyr. Texts, p. 62, > interprets "rwdw" to have here meant "slopes", and > not "stairs" (see his fn. 9). Sethe's > transcriptions (I, 150) show that the "stair" O40 > determinative was used in the Merire and Teti > texts, but tellingly, not in the Unis text where > the N 21 or N 22 glyph (tongue of land, sand-bank) > was used as a determinative - with this I assume > being the basis for Faulkner's translation. In the > PT's, then, these can be seen as being ramps > leading up to the sky. > > Additionally, Hannig (AE WB I, p.1404) lists the > variant t3-rdw as possibly intended to mean "ramp" > (Utt. 267, 619 and 667), again based on the > written word's apparent reference to it being an > earthwork structure (hence the "t3"), as opposed > to the "rdw" here having been constructed of the > more conducive materials used for stairways, i.e., > stone, wood or bricks. A true "stairway" built of > earth or mud would clearly not last long, if it > would last at all, quickly becoming a ramp as it > succumbed to the inevitability of wear and > gravity. > > > The term r-st3 is also attested as meaning "ramp", > although this at a later period. The word r-st3 > does appear in the PT's (Utt. 300), but I have yet > to find a clear connection of this word to the > sense of sloped access during the OK. The word > "st3" was clearly in use at this time in > connection with the pulling of sledges, and so it > would seem quite possible that r-st3 did indeed > have a connection to slopes in the OK, but further > evidence would be needed to make this more > certain.
One must also note that while ramps existed in the OK during this same time period geysers are both unattested for the entire timeline of the AE civilization and no evidence for their existence or use by the AE is known.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20-Apr-17 03:37 by Hanslune.