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Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3397 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 932 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 839 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 824 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 392 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 448 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 705 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 701 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 662 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 648 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 711 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 798 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 893 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 587 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 667 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 612 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 522 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 418 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 399 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 467 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 407 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 492 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 453 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 499 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 477 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 367 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 304 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 379 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 343 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 353 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 359 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 371 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 335 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 625 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 140 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 147 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 127 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 141 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 140 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 147 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 181 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 678 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 473 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 526 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 433 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 483 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 485 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 525 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 505 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 475 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 434 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 452 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 487 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 436 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 464 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 569 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 488 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 555 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 458 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 524 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 506 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 544 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 463 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 496 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 596 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 539 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 566 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 480 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 487 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 510 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 469 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 441 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 498 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 446 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 501 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 477 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 478 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 459 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 617 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 610 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 529 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 504 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 524 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 534 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 579 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 490 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 466 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 567 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 562 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 490 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 530 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 492 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 497 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 485 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 452 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 567 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 365 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 512 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 353 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 464 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 469 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 438 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 448 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 509 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 507 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 312 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 355 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 433 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 548 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 382 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 516 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 438 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 509 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 432 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 445 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 492 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 386 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 473 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 393 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 469 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 383 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 468 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 495 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 377 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 461 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 411 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 410 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 676 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 439 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 460 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 556 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 583 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 463 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 484 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 724 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 637 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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