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Thanos5150 Wrote [to Racho]:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do you think these people had modern boring machines:
> [es.sott.net]
>
> These are made in raised relief which the
> chisel marks, and "modern boring machine" marks,
> conform to, not the other way around.

I see no photo that shows that those figures are raised above the surface plane. Rather, in several photos those figures appear to be engraved below the level of the main face plane. In addition, the linear tool marks around those figures are not nearly as precise and parallel as they are in the surrounding areas of the larger plain surfaces of the walls, columns, and ceilings. This suggests that those figures may have been added after the main excavation that formed the bulk of those caverns.

And so for example, in this video, [www.youtube.com], we see the following:

    -- Marker 12:55 (also see 7:00):
      1. The figures on the right wall are within a field that has been sunken into a concavity below the wall plain to allow the figures to emerge "raised".

      2. column in the center shows a wraparound graphic that's sunken below the plane of the excavation tool marks.

    -- Marker 14:05:Note the left wall figures which are sunken below the wall's face plane.

    -- In this photo: [tinfoilhatlady.files.wordpress.com]
      1. Note the column on the right where the wraparound graphic is sunken below the face plane of the column.

      2. Note on the back wall how the entire field of figures is sunken behind the main tool marks on the wall. It seems clear where the concavitiy begins according to the disruption of the vertical tool marks on the upper aspect of that wall.

    -- Here's a better view: [c2.staticflickr.com]
      The chisel marks associated with the figures are clearly not nearly as straight and precisely parallel as the larger wall excavation marks. I believe that entire field of figures is within a concave recess chiseled into the original wall plane

> This is a modern quarry in Italy. Note the long
> tool marks to the right of the worker:
> [www.artofmaking.ac.uk]

And note the total absence of such tool marks to the left of the worker. It's not obvious that those parallel tool marks are made with a hand held chisel. The worker in the photo isn't working on that section of stone, so how do we know how those striations were created?

Also, unless that worker is ambidextrous, he's of the opposite handedness vs. the worker who made those parallel tool marks on that stone face.


> "At some modern quarries, however, more
> traditional methods of quarrying can still be
> seen. At the peperino tuff quarries near Marino,
> in the Alban Hills south-east of Rome, blocks are
> still extracted with specially-designed long
> versions of the point. The quarryman uses this
> tool to carve narrow separation trenches along the
> side and rear of the desired block.[16] The block
> is then split from the bedrock using numerous
> small flat wedges, or sometimes a bundle of point
> chisels, hammered into the stone along its
> base.[17] The block is then pulled off the quarry
> face with a rope down to a point where it can be
> loaded for transport.[18]"

> Here.

This excerpt is about the separation trench, not about shaping the face of the stone after separation from an adjacent block.


> ...
> Longyou caves:
> [i.imgur.com]
> [interesno.cc]
>
> As said so many time before, clearly demonstrated
> in both pictures and text, these same chisel marks
> are found all over the world wherever stone is
> quarried no different in ancient times than today.

I disagree that this is clear in those photos of the walls, columns, and ceiling of Longyou, unless you know of other citations that more specifically address those particular tool marks. In fact, in Egypt we see those "herringbone" marks which make no sense as hand-chiseled tool marks unless the quarry workers switched between left-handed and right-handed workers on alternating rows. Likewise for this one allegedly from the Roman Empire:


[www.penn.museum]

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-17 15:08 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3308 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 909 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 812 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 800 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 370 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 415 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 679 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 677 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 447 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 636 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 621 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 686 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 774 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 870 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 556 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 641 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 585 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 494 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 396 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 374 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 449 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 378 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 468 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 426 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 475 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 445 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 346 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 281 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 354 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 319 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 333 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 338 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 347 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 312 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 600 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 118 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 125 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 106 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 117 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 115 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 124 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 158 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 650 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 451 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 504 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 410 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 459 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 460 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 502 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 479 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 429 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 412 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 428 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 465 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 415 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 548 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 464 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 532 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 473 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 456 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 522 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 416 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 571 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 436 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 513 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 543 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 484 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 449 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 432 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 477 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 435 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 595 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 589 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 510 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 484 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 502 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 507 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 551 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 469 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 460 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 466 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 537 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 540 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 505 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 441 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 426 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 541 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 335 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 491 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 440 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 411 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 420 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 486 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 490 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 292 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 331 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 413 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 527 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 496 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 417 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 403 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 489 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 410 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 429 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 465 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 366 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 450 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 449 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 426 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 468 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 435 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 386 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 390 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 657 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 422 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 436 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 528 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 563 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 437 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 458 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 633 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 616 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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