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Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
Date: April 09, 2017 08:33PM
Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Warwick Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Jon Ellison Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What classification and specification of
> > modern
> > > > copper most closely resembles that of the
> > > copper
> > > > available during the AE fourth dynasty?
> > > >
> > > > How would a modern copper of similar
> > > > classification and specification to that of
> > the
> > > AE
> > > > 4th dynasty impact upon the functionality
> of
> > > any
> > > > tooling and any tooling materials
> > experiments?
> > > > Are we suggesting that 4th AE copper
> tooling
> > > was
> > > > of a higher and more suitable specification
> > > than
> > > > today's copper alloys?
> > >
> > >
> > > Not commenting either way. I am merely
> > > recognising that any difference will call
> into
> > > question the resu
>
>
> > If we were to use a modern copper alloy of a
> > higher specification than all known AE
> examples.
> > How would we interpret the results?
>
>
> they would be inconclusive and disputed
Unless of course there was a zero result using high specification modern copper alloys who's specification in all relevant parameters exceeded that of 4th AE copper alloys.
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or even at the very least in terms of
> granite
> > > > working, todays forged tool steel and
> > tungsten
> > > > carbide tipped tools?
> > >
> > > How we do it today is not the question.
> >
> > How we do it today is dictated by the worked
> > material itself, which is unchanged since AE
> > times, Red Granite.
> > Today it is absolutely necessary to use forged
> > tool steel and tungsten carbide.
>
>
> In your opinion
Also in the opinion of the global modern high tensile, tungsten carbide tooling industry and it's millions of customers, myself included.
Proven alternatives are most welcome.
>
>
> A necessary
> > process which supports a modern global industry
> in
> > tool production.
> > Has the red granite become harder and more
> > difficult to work over the last 4500 years or
> so?
>
>
> of course not, don't be silly.
Good, therefore we have eliminated one possible variable.
>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > With regard to granite working. Did the 4th
> > AE
> > > > have the means to produce and have the use
> of
> > > > forged Steel tools?
> > >
> > > They had access to iron, they had access to
> the
> > > requirements for steeling iron. While I do
> not
> > > think they did I do not rule it out either
> >
> > Where did the 4th AE obtain their iron?
>
> where did I say they did?
>
> > How did they convert their iron into steel
> alloy?
>
> where did I say they did?
Agreed, you didn't say that they did convert iron into steel, you did say that they "had access to the requirements for steeling iron"
Just to clarify.
Does this mean that they had access to the materials and materials science necessary for the conversion of iron into steel alloy?
>
> > Are there any examples of 4th AE steel alloy?
>
> not to my knowedge , no. are tghere any examples
> of same from an earlier civilisation?
Thank you
I'm not aware of any examples of steel alloy from an earlier civilization.
>
>
> >
> > Iron isn't forged tool steel and tungsten
> carbide,
> > nowhere near.
>
> where did I say it was?
Clarifying a possible misunderstanding that iron and steel were some how comparable in terms of high impact tool functionality.
Iron, cast or wrought being unsuitable for the above application.
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
3310 |
Racho
|
02-Apr-17 18:38 |

Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
909 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
02-Apr-17 20:05 |
 
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake
|
812 |
Racho
|
04-Apr-17 14:02 |
  
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake
|
800 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
04-Apr-17 14:51 |
   
If on purpose...
|
371 |
Racho
|
14-Apr-17 05:01 |
    
Re: If on purpose...
|
415 |
Origyptian
|
14-Apr-17 05:32 |
  
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake
|
679 |
Origyptian
|
07-Apr-17 13:28 |
 
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
677 |
SandyJesse
|
07-Apr-17 22:42 |
  
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
448 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
09-Apr-17 16:59 |

Re: B 4 : )
|
636 |
Thunderbird
|
05-Apr-17 05:22 |
 
Re: B 4 : )
|
622 |
Warwick
|
07-Apr-17 17:50 |

Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
686 |
SandyJesse
|
07-Apr-17 01:30 |
 
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
774 |
Warwick
|
07-Apr-17 18:03 |
  
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
870 |
Jon Ellison
|
08-Apr-17 10:53 |
   
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
557 |
Warwick
|
08-Apr-17 17:57 |
    
if I carried out a test...
|
641 |
Racho
|
09-Apr-17 02:15 |
     
Re: if I carried out a test...
|
586 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 08:44 |
      
I did check it out :)
|
494 |
Racho
|
25-Apr-17 05:59 |
       
Re: I did check it out :)
|
397 |
Origyptian
|
25-Apr-17 14:22 |
        
Don't even need to stop to think on this...
|
374 |
Racho
|
25-Apr-17 15:37 |
         
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this...
|
449 |
Thanos5150
|
25-Apr-17 17:20 |
          
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent
|
378 |
Racho
|
25-Apr-17 18:07 |
           
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent
|
469 |
Thanos5150
|
25-Apr-17 19:49 |
            
Would you agree...
|
427 |
Racho
|
25-Apr-17 20:29 |
             
Re: Would you agree...
|
476 |
Thanos5150
|
25-Apr-17 21:07 |
              
Re: Would you agree...
|
447 |
Origyptian
|
25-Apr-17 22:54 |
               
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
346 |
Racho
|
15-Oct-17 05:46 |
                
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
281 |
Jon Ellison
|
15-Oct-17 14:26 |
                 
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before
|
354 |
Racho
|
15-Oct-17 16:49 |
                  
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before
|
319 |
Jon Ellison
|
15-Oct-17 19:20 |
                  
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before
|
334 |
Jon Ellison
|
15-Oct-17 19:35 |
                 
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
338 |
Origyptian
|
16-Oct-17 03:27 |
                  
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
347 |
Jon Ellison
|
16-Oct-17 07:58 |
                   
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
312 |
Jon Ellison
|
16-Oct-17 09:19 |
                    
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark
|
600 |
Jon Ellison
|
16-Oct-17 11:03 |
                 
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
118 |
Racho
|
20-Dec-19 20:04 |
                  
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
126 |
Martin Stower
|
20-Dec-19 23:47 |
                   
?
|
107 |
Racho
|
21-Dec-19 01:25 |
                  
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
119 |
Open mind
|
21-Dec-19 02:03 |
                   
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
116 |
Thanos5150
|
21-Dec-19 04:19 |
                    
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
124 |
Open mind
|
21-Dec-19 05:07 |
                     
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff'
|
158 |
Thanos5150
|
21-Dec-19 16:25 |
             
Re: Would you agree...
|
650 |
Corpuscles
|
25-Apr-17 23:56 |
     
Re: if I carried out a test...
|
451 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 15:39 |
     
Re: if I carried out a test...
|
504 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
09-Apr-17 22:34 |
      
Re: if I carried out a test...
|
410 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 23:20 |
       
could not have been
|
459 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 15:34 |
        
Re: could not have been
|
461 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 16:18 |
         
Re: could not have been
|
503 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 17:29 |
          
Re: could not have been
|
479 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 17:59 |
           
Re: could not have been
|
429 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 18:48 |
            
Re: could not have been
|
412 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 19:18 |
             
Re: could not have been
|
429 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 19:34 |
              
Re: could not have been
|
467 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 19:55 |
               
Re: could not have been
|
415 |
Warwick
|
11-Apr-17 17:29 |
    
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
441 |
Thanos5150
|
09-Apr-17 16:13 |
     
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
549 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 16:42 |
      
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
465 |
Thanos5150
|
09-Apr-17 16:56 |
       
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
455 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 17:21 |
        
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
532 |
Thanos5150
|
09-Apr-17 18:00 |
         
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
441 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 18:06 |
          
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
473 |
Thanos5150
|
09-Apr-17 18:22 |
           
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
479 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 18:31 |
            
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
457 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 20:02 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
522 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 15:41 |
          
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
416 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 18:44 |
           
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
458 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 19:03 |
            
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
440 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 19:17 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
475 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 19:48 |
              
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
571 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 20:33 |
               
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
436 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 15:53 |
            
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
514 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 20:06 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
543 |
Thanos5150
|
09-Apr-17 23:24 |
              
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
458 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 04:42 |
               
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
468 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 08:50 |
                
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
484 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 14:16 |
               
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
444 |
Thanos5150
|
10-Apr-17 15:25 |
                
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
419 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 15:44 |
          
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
475 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 14:44 |
           
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
450 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 15:26 |
            
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
433 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 15:54 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
423 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 16:01 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
477 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 16:23 |
              
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
451 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 17:06 |
            
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
455 |
Jon Ellison
|
10-Apr-17 16:11 |
             
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
436 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 17:23 |
 
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along
|
596 |
Racho
|
08-Apr-17 16:54 |
  
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along
|
589 |
Warwick
|
08-Apr-17 18:23 |
   
Oranges and apples...
|
511 |
Racho
|
09-Apr-17 00:39 |
    
Re: Oranges and apples...
|
485 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 15:59 |
  
Re: In plain sight
|
502 |
Thunderbird
|
10-Apr-17 19:53 |
   
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;)
|
507 |
Racho
|
14-Apr-17 06:53 |
    
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;)
|
551 |
Thunderbird
|
15-Apr-17 01:31 |

Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
469 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
09-Apr-17 16:47 |
 
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
461 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 16:52 |
  
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
444 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 19:49 |
   
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
467 |
Warwick
|
09-Apr-17 19:53 |
    
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
448 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 20:09 |
 
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
538 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 19:49 |
  
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
541 |
Jon Ellison
|
09-Apr-17 19:59 |
   
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
449 |
Origyptian
|
09-Apr-17 20:26 |
 
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
465 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
10-Apr-17 15:26 |
  
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
457 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 15:46 |
   
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
506 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
10-Apr-17 18:45 |
    
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
471 |
Eddie Larry
|
10-Apr-17 18:49 |
    
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
442 |
Origyptian
|
10-Apr-17 18:50 |
     
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
|
465 |
Warwick
|
10-Apr-17 19:18 |
     
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
426 |
Racho
|
11-Apr-17 06:22 |
      
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
541 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 09:27 |
       
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
336 |
Origyptian
|
11-Apr-17 19:32 |
        
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
493 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 19:38 |
      
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
335 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
11-Apr-17 14:11 |
       
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
441 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 14:27 |
        
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
426 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
11-Apr-17 14:49 |
         
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
412 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 15:27 |
          
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
421 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
11-Apr-17 15:53 |
           
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
486 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 15:55 |
           
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
490 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
11-Apr-17 16:35 |
            
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
293 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 16:49 |
           
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
332 |
Origyptian
|
11-Apr-17 19:54 |
            
once the mistake...
|
414 |
Racho
|
12-Apr-17 00:03 |
            
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
527 |
Thunderbird
|
12-Apr-17 04:20 |
             
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
358 |
Origyptian
|
12-Apr-17 13:14 |
          
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
496 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
11-Apr-17 17:31 |
           
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
418 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 18:17 |
            
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
404 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 18:26 |
             
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
490 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 18:43 |
              
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
411 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
12-Apr-17 14:43 |
            
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
430 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
11-Apr-17 18:41 |
             
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
465 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 18:45 |
           
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
367 |
Fsbirdhouse
|
11-Apr-17 18:48 |
            
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
450 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 19:00 |
             
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
371 |
Warwick
|
11-Apr-17 19:37 |
              
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
449 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 19:59 |
               
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
363 |
Warwick
|
11-Apr-17 20:29 |
                
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
427 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 20:34 |
               
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
469 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 20:29 |
                
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
363 |
Warwick
|
11-Apr-17 20:37 |
                 
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
436 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 20:45 |
                  
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly...
|
339 |
Warwick
|
12-Apr-17 17:24 |
                 
science and technology...where minds come to meet
|
386 |
Racho
|
11-Apr-17 20:46 |
                  
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet
|
391 |
Jon Ellison
|
11-Apr-17 21:19 |
                   
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet
|
658 |
Archae Solenhofen
|
12-Apr-17 15:01 |
                    
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet
|
422 |
Warwick
|
12-Apr-17 17:52 |
                     
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used?
|
436 |
Racho
|
12-Apr-17 20:20 |
                      
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used?
|
528 |
Origyptian
|
12-Apr-17 21:34 |
                       
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this?
|
564 |
Racho
|
12-Apr-17 22:54 |
                        
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this?
|
438 |
Warwick
|
13-Apr-17 17:15 |
                         
taking sides...I suppose so but
|
459 |
Racho
|
14-Apr-17 04:18 |
                   
beating the dead horse...
|
635 |
Racho
|
20-Apr-17 06:50 |

Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head
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616 |
Notinham
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11-Apr-17 01:43 |