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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3351 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 921 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 823 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 811 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 380 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 426 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 691 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 685 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 456 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 649 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 630 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 696 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 784 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 878 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 567 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 654 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 597 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 507 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 405 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 384 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 457 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 388 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 478 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 440 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 485 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 463 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 354 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 290 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 365 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 331 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 341 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 347 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 357 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 322 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 614 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 126 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 135 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 115 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 127 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 129 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 134 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 169 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 662 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 460 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 514 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 419 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 468 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 470 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 510 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 490 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 453 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 422 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 437 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 476 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 423 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 556 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 476 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 462 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 540 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 450 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 498 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 491 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 531 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 427 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 484 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 583 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 525 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 553 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 467 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 478 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 494 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 428 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 483 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 485 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 461 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 463 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 605 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 598 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 519 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 493 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 513 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 518 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 565 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 470 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 456 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 554 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 548 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 459 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 476 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 470 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 516 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 481 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 438 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 550 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 348 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 501 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 341 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 450 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 443 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 422 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 434 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 495 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 494 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 339 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 422 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 532 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 502 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 495 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 418 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 433 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 474 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 372 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 460 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 380 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 458 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 370 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 452 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 480 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 443 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 346 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 396 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 400 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 664 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 430 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 444 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 539 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 571 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 447 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 468 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 668 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 624 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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