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Warwick Wrote:
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> Or even iron.
Quote

Regardless, they must have had at least bronze as the Mesopotamian had been using it for 1,000yrs before and iron is found in Egypt earlier than the iron age and is even mentioned in a 6th Dynasty text: "The doors of Pekh-ka which are in the abyss open themselves to Pepi, the doors of the iron which is the ceiling of the sky open themselves to Pepi, and he passeth through them;". A smelted iron dagger was found in an Anatolian (Hattic) tomb dated to 2500BC and evidence of iron use dates further in Mesopotamia to at least 3000BC.
Here

I think its possible the industrial grade tools used iron but the tooling for the grunt work of quarrying I do not see as reasonable as the temperatures required to make iron usable on a large scale were too much.

Of interest from the same thread:
Quote

Maybe the key to the AE stone working [namely granite] was the discovery of relatively small caches of iron, even meteoric, which they made into "sacred tools" to build the monuments of the gods. Like I said, these tools must have been rare meaning they may have only made a handful of them given the limited amount of material they had. If you take all the granite work at Giza, for example, particularly given the fact they had ample time to fabricate the blocks, in reality it could all be done with just a few saws, lathes, ect.

If they had only one saw that could only cut one block a week this means all of the granite in G1 could have been easily cut in well less than 2yrs. No granite in G1 or G2. The rest of the fine cut granite at Giza is found facing the Valley Temple-another 2-3yrs? If you took all the cut and dressed granite blocks attributed to the 4th Dynasty at Giza and Abu Roash, cutting just one block a week with one saw, I bet you could easily cut all of it in 5yrs or less. 260 blocks. I don't know how many blocks of course but for sake of argument say it took 10yrs instead. Now imagine what you could do with two saws running that each could cut two blocks a week. All of the granite needed could be cut in a few years which of course in reality would only be a few months for each structure.

So you've got thousands of poor bastards using the basic tools we know they used to cut the core blocks with 2 saws at the "saw palace" at the quarry cutting granite as needed to spec. By the time they get to the point they would install the granite it would have already been cut and waiting for transport which would have obviously been planned for as that would have taken time as well.

At the beginning of the 5th Dynasty we all of sudden see round columns-the invention of the lathe perhaps?

I would also bring up again the "renaissance" of the NK which we see an explosion of the use of granite which just so happens to coincide with the increased use of iron in Anaotlia (and elsewhere) and the arrival of the Hyksos, likely Hurrians from Anatolia, and a few centuries later the Hittites of Anatolia of who the AE had extensive contact with the NK none greater than the time of Ramses II, the greatest builder of them all. I don't think this is a coincidence.

> The arguments re lack of evidence cut both ways in
> that regard.

Indeed.

The hydraulic nature of the Mediterranean must be taken into account when considering the possibilities regardless of what is actually found in the archaeological record in Egypt as so much is missing anyways. This does not give all the answers but at least creates a greater baseline to work with.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3214 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 882 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 785 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 771 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 346 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 392 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 654 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 655 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 613 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 590 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 657 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 748 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 834 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 530 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 613 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 560 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 468 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 373 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 350 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 416 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 349 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 444 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 391 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 445 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 416 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 322 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 258 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 328 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 295 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 305 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 315 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 319 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 285 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 567 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 94 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 96 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 79 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 90 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 90 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 96 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 130 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 621 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 424 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 470 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 384 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 431 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 436 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 477 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 449 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 374 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 386 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 404 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 442 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 392 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 522 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 437 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 425 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 485 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 454 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 430 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 493 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 427 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 415 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 445 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 547 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 488 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 515 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 435 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 458 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 390 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 423 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 409 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 398 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 430 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 429 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 411 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 570 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 564 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 488 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 459 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 478 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 478 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 521 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 437 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 422 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 439 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 505 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 514 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 434 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 432 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 476 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 416 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 400 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 513 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 313 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 465 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 306 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 418 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 401 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 399 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 456 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 465 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 270 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 300 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 389 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 495 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 334 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 468 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 391 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 381 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 459 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 385 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 399 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 434 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 339 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 347 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 425 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 342 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 405 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 442 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 340 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 413 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 319 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 364 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 368 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 627 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 398 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 411 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 501 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 542 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 414 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 439 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 558 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 588 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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