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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3213 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 881 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 784 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 769 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 345 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 391 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 653 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 653 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 418 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 611 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 589 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 653 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 747 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 831 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 529 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 611 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 558 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 467 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 371 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 348 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 411 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 347 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 443 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 390 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 439 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 415 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 319 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 255 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 325 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 294 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 304 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 313 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 318 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 284 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 566 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 93 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 95 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 78 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 89 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 88 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 94 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 127 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 620 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 423 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 468 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 380 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 429 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 434 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 476 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 448 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 373 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 384 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 402 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 438 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 389 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 415 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 521 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 436 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 424 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 484 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 413 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 453 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 429 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 491 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 388 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 426 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 545 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 408 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 487 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 514 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 433 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 441 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 417 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 389 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 446 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 422 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 406 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 397 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 450 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 427 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 428 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 409 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 569 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 562 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 487 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 457 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 477 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 476 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 519 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 443 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 435 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 421 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 437 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 416 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 504 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 512 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 423 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 431 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 429 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 441 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 414 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 439 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 398 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 510 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 311 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 464 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 305 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 417 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 400 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 383 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 397 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 454 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 463 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 268 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 299 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 387 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 493 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 332 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 467 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 390 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 380 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 458 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 383 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 398 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 433 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 423 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 345 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 424 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 341 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 404 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 441 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 338 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 412 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 317 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 361 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 366 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 626 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 397 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 410 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 498 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 541 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 412 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 438 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 557 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 586 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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