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Warwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Modern day copper is refined from a generally
> purer mineral lode, under more specific
> conditions. Also the source ores they worked with
> are of a lesser quality than thosw we employ
> today.

I fail to see it has anything to do with the quality of ore, but rather in modern times our mining and refining process is much more advanced namely the ability to generate sustained high temperatures allowing for standardized means to remove impurities. We also rely on standardized materials meaning no matter where you go the expectation is these materials meet certain requirements which forces refining to adhere to certain standards.

> The resultant copper does not have the same
> Properties ie Malliability, Hardness, etc etc as
> that which the AE's are known to have.

The reason why AE copper was of sterner stuff than what one will find at their local Home Depot was the addition, or at least not the removal, of arsenic. AE copper was an alloy, not "pure copper", which there are good arguments this was done on purpose.

> IOW's if I carried out a test with a piece of
> Limestone, and a piece of red granite, the
> observations and results would be inaccurate.

Any programs I have seen to replicate AE stone working using copper tools make no mention of "well, yeah this sucks but AE copper was harder, so...". They do not bother to make this distinction as the difference is nominal in relation to the task at hand as the addition of arsenic, though beneficial, does not turn it into "super-copper" compared to modern copper and if not made well was actually more brittle which defeats the purpose.

The use of standard copper tools on limestone is apparent, but equally apparent is that what they used on granite was not only of a higher order of material strength, but also the tools themselves. What this means as of now we still have not figured out, but there is no way around it regardless. As Lehner envisions they would have needed "millions of copper chisels" including "thousands of portable smelters" just to work the limestone which in and of itself there is no tangible evidence of beyond a smattering of copper chisels found throughout the ages. Where are the chisel and smelter factories to make these millions of copper chisels and thousands of portable smelters? The answers are there somewhere, but there is a lot more to it than just using such a tool namely the infrastructure to make such tools on an industrial scale.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09-Apr-17 16:26 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 3308 Racho 02-Apr-17 18:38
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 909 Fsbirdhouse 02-Apr-17 20:05
Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 812 Racho 04-Apr-17 14:02
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 800 Fsbirdhouse 04-Apr-17 14:51
If on purpose... 371 Racho 14-Apr-17 05:01
Re: If on purpose... 415 Origyptian 14-Apr-17 05:32
Re: Whoever operated this saw (2:30 min mark)...made a mistake 679 Origyptian 07-Apr-17 13:28
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 677 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 22:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 447 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 16:59
Re: B 4 : ) 636 Thunderbird 05-Apr-17 05:22
Re: B 4 : ) 621 Warwick 07-Apr-17 17:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 686 SandyJesse 07-Apr-17 01:30
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 774 Warwick 07-Apr-17 18:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 870 Jon Ellison 08-Apr-17 10:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 557 Warwick 08-Apr-17 17:57
if I carried out a test... 641 Racho 09-Apr-17 02:15
Re: if I carried out a test... 586 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 08:44
I did check it out :) 494 Racho 25-Apr-17 05:59
Re: I did check it out :) 397 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 14:22
Don't even need to stop to think on this... 374 Racho 25-Apr-17 15:37
Re: Don't even need to stop to think on this... 449 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 17:20
I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 378 Racho 25-Apr-17 18:07
Re: I believe you are a copper/bronze tool proponent 469 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 19:49
Would you agree... 427 Racho 25-Apr-17 20:29
Re: Would you agree... 476 Thanos5150 25-Apr-17 21:07
Re: Would you agree... 446 Origyptian 25-Apr-17 22:54
...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 346 Racho 15-Oct-17 05:46
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 281 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 14:26
precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 354 Racho 15-Oct-17 16:49
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 319 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:20
Re: precision cut at 7:08 min mark...interesting photo angle I haven't seen before 334 Jon Ellison 15-Oct-17 19:35
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 338 Origyptian 16-Oct-17 03:27
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 347 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 07:58
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 312 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 09:19
Re: ...just a lot of similarities at the 36 second mark and super telltale machine markings at 9:30 min mark 600 Jon Ellison 16-Oct-17 11:03
an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 118 Racho 20-Dec-19 20:04
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 126 Martin Stower 20-Dec-19 23:47
? 106 Racho 21-Dec-19 01:25
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 118 Open mind 21-Dec-19 02:03
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 115 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 04:19
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 124 Open mind 21-Dec-19 05:07
Re: an ancient quarry in France...same markings on side of a 'cliff' 158 Thanos5150 21-Dec-19 16:25
Re: Would you agree... 650 Corpuscles 25-Apr-17 23:56
Re: if I carried out a test... 451 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:39
Re: if I carried out a test... 504 Fsbirdhouse 09-Apr-17 22:34
Re: if I carried out a test... 410 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 23:20
could not have been 459 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:34
Re: could not have been 460 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:18
Re: could not have been 503 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:29
Re: could not have been 479 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 17:59
Re: could not have been 429 Warwick 10-Apr-17 18:48
Re: could not have been 412 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:18
Re: could not have been 428 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:34
Re: could not have been 467 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 19:55
Re: could not have been 415 Warwick 11-Apr-17 17:29
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:13
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 549 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 16:56
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Warwick 09-Apr-17 17:21
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 532 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:00
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 441 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 473 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 18:22
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 479 Warwick 09-Apr-17 18:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:02
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 522 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:41
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 416 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 18:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:03
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 440 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:17
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 474 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:48
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 571 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 20:33
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 436 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 514 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 543 Thanos5150 09-Apr-17 23:24
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 04:42
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 468 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 08:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 484 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:16
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Thanos5150 10-Apr-17 15:25
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 419 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 475 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 14:44
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 450 Warwick 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 432 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:54
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 422 Warwick 10-Apr-17 16:01
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 477 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:23
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 451 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:06
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 455 Jon Ellison 10-Apr-17 16:11
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 436 Warwick 10-Apr-17 17:23
I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 596 Racho 08-Apr-17 16:54
Re: I've come to recognize that I was wrong all along 589 Warwick 08-Apr-17 18:23
Oranges and apples... 511 Racho 09-Apr-17 00:39
Re: Oranges and apples... 485 Warwick 09-Apr-17 15:59
Re: In plain sight 502 Thunderbird 10-Apr-17 19:53
It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 507 Racho 14-Apr-17 06:53
Re: It is in plain sight...or plane sight ;) 551 Thunderbird 15-Apr-17 01:31
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 469 Archae Solenhofen 09-Apr-17 16:47
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 461 Warwick 09-Apr-17 16:52
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 444 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 467 Warwick 09-Apr-17 19:53
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:09
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 537 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 19:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 541 Jon Ellison 09-Apr-17 19:59
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 448 Origyptian 09-Apr-17 20:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 15:26
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 457 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 15:46
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 506 Fsbirdhouse 10-Apr-17 18:45
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 471 Eddie Larry 10-Apr-17 18:49
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 442 Origyptian 10-Apr-17 18:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 465 Warwick 10-Apr-17 19:18
unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 426 Racho 11-Apr-17 06:22
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 541 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 09:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 335 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:32
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 492 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:38
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 335 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:11
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 441 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 14:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 426 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 14:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 411 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:27
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 421 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 15:53
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 486 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 15:55
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 490 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 16:35
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 292 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 16:49
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 332 Origyptian 11-Apr-17 19:54
once the mistake... 413 Racho 12-Apr-17 00:03
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 527 Thunderbird 12-Apr-17 04:20
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 358 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 13:14
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 496 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 17:31
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 418 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:17
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 404 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:26
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 490 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 411 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 14:43
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 430 Archae Solenhofen 11-Apr-17 18:41
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 465 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 18:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 367 Fsbirdhouse 11-Apr-17 18:48
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 450 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:00
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 371 Warwick 11-Apr-17 19:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 449 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 19:59
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 427 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:34
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 469 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:29
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 363 Warwick 11-Apr-17 20:37
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 436 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 20:45
Re: unless the cuts were being made very, very quickly... 339 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:24
science and technology...where minds come to meet 386 Racho 11-Apr-17 20:46
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 390 Jon Ellison 11-Apr-17 21:19
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 658 Archae Solenhofen 12-Apr-17 15:01
Re: science and technology...where minds come to meet 422 Warwick 12-Apr-17 17:52
43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 436 Racho 12-Apr-17 20:20
Re: 43 second mark ...anyone care to take a crack at which tools were used? 528 Origyptian 12-Apr-17 21:34
and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 564 Racho 12-Apr-17 22:54
Re: and just after 30:30 min mark..china cave - chisels did this? 438 Warwick 13-Apr-17 17:15
taking sides...I suppose so but 459 Racho 14-Apr-17 04:18
beating the dead horse... 634 Racho 20-Apr-17 06:50
Re: Carved all this out with copper tools? Hell, I'll give em hardened steel and still scratch my head 616 Notinham 11-Apr-17 01:43


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