Mysteries :
The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board).
Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I never said anything about "building it", but do
> you think Weni transported these loads of granite
> items to the pyramid(s), but didn't actually see
> it? Strange.
Why do you think Weni personally attended the transportation of those items? The guy was appointed by the King to be governor of the huge Upper Egypt. Why would he leave his command central and personally deliver those few stone accessories, especially considering he doesn't even say the king gave him any praise or love for it? [By the way, I'm using "Weni" instead of "Uni" to keep the discussion consistent.]
For that matter, the inscription also says,
So does that mean he personally built a barge 100' x 50' with his own hands in 17 days, or that he was even physically at the construction site supervising the project? On what basis should be accept his first person accounts as literally indicating his direct participation in all those activities? It seems more like a "resumé" bullet list (of accomplishments and awards) submitted by Governor Weni (high official, impeccable creds) for a place in the afterlife (funerary context), and not necessarily a "historical document" that's meant to portray actual events.
At this point, I allow the possibility that Weni might not have actually seen the pyramid, but the point is whether there was contemporaneous original construction.
> > or even acknowledging that any pyramid was man made.
>
> Gadzooks. There you go with the AE not knowing it
> was man-made thing again. Amazing.
Not exactly, I said acknowledging, as in explicitly stating, that any of them were man made. But yes, it really is truly amazing, isn't it?...
And possibly millions of people would have seen such pyramids and their construction over that 200 year span in the 3rd millennium BC, and yet no one talks about their own personal experience, there are no tools or methods that support such construction, there are no paintings or engravings that show such construction (is there any graphical representation of a pyramid at all among artifacts of the 3rd millennium BC?), no model toy pyramids for kids. So did they know? Of course I think the locals knew those things were there, but I'm not sure they knew how those things got there, or that they understood their true man made nature.
> For interested parties this would be Merenre's pyramid.
>
> [www.narmer.pl]
>
> Compare to Pepi I, also one of the pharoah's Weni worked for:
> [www.ancient-egypt.org]
>
> These would be examples of the kind of sarcophagi
> Weni speaks of that were transported from the
> southern quarries.
And that is your speculation, right? You don't really know that since they're not the boxes or the pyramids referred to in Weni's inscription. Now, can you show us a photo of the sarcophagus in the queen's pyramid, since that's what Weni was referring to?
> To wrap this up, the first few times he mention
> the pyramid he says "of the queen", which does
> make it appear these objects are for the queens
> tomb though not necessarily for her own pyramid.
> The latter few times he leaves this off which
> equally means the rest would be for the king's
> pyramid.
But Thanos, isn't that your speculation? Where does Weni call it the king's pyramid? Is there any other corroborative document that uses that name specifically for the king's pyramid? Weni simply repeats the exact same name as when he previously identifies the name as the queen's pyramid. I'm wondering if you are taking the English translations of such naming conventions too literally.
> It would seem, like I said, he is
> reffering to both the queen's tomb and his own
> pyramid. Burger's statement does not discount this
> and to quote Breasted of the same passage:
>
> "The exact place and meaning of the last
> three words ["of the queen"] are uncertain;
> possibly they refer to a burial place of the queen
> in connection with the pyramid."
>
> It would seem Breasted agrees with me.
Not really. You said "The latter few times he leaves this off which equally means the rest would be for the king's pyramid", which is far more certain than Breasted's more speculative "uncertain" and "possibly". It seems you've turned Breasted's possibility into your certainty.
But that's fine, I just tend toward the 2015 standard over the 1906 standard.
In any case, getting back to my original main point, nothing in Weni's inscription makes any reference to the original, contemporaneous construction of any major pyramid in 3rd millennium BC Egypt.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04-Mar-17 05:26 by Origyptian.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I never said anything about "building it", but do
> you think Weni transported these loads of granite
> items to the pyramid(s), but didn't actually see
> it? Strange.
Why do you think Weni personally attended the transportation of those items? The guy was appointed by the King to be governor of the huge Upper Egypt. Why would he leave his command central and personally deliver those few stone accessories, especially considering he doesn't even say the king gave him any praise or love for it? [By the way, I'm using "Weni" instead of "Uni" to keep the discussion consistent.]
For that matter, the inscription also says,
- "I hewed for him a cargo-boat of acacia wood of 60 cubits in its length, and 30 cubits in its breadth, built in only 17 days".
So does that mean he personally built a barge 100' x 50' with his own hands in 17 days, or that he was even physically at the construction site supervising the project? On what basis should be accept his first person accounts as literally indicating his direct participation in all those activities? It seems more like a "resumé" bullet list (of accomplishments and awards) submitted by Governor Weni (high official, impeccable creds) for a place in the afterlife (funerary context), and not necessarily a "historical document" that's meant to portray actual events.
At this point, I allow the possibility that Weni might not have actually seen the pyramid, but the point is whether there was contemporaneous original construction.
> > or even acknowledging that any pyramid was man made.
>
> Gadzooks. There you go with the AE not knowing it
> was man-made thing again. Amazing.
Not exactly, I said acknowledging, as in explicitly stating, that any of them were man made. But yes, it really is truly amazing, isn't it?...
- - Is there any firsthand account that acknowledges that any major stone pyramid is man made?
- I haven't found any yet.
- Is there any firsthand eyewitness account of anyone claiming to participate in or just observe the original construction of any major stone pyramid?
- I haven't found any yet.
And possibly millions of people would have seen such pyramids and their construction over that 200 year span in the 3rd millennium BC, and yet no one talks about their own personal experience, there are no tools or methods that support such construction, there are no paintings or engravings that show such construction (is there any graphical representation of a pyramid at all among artifacts of the 3rd millennium BC?), no model toy pyramids for kids. So did they know? Of course I think the locals knew those things were there, but I'm not sure they knew how those things got there, or that they understood their true man made nature.
> For interested parties this would be Merenre's pyramid.
>
> [www.narmer.pl]
>
> Compare to Pepi I, also one of the pharoah's Weni worked for:
> [www.ancient-egypt.org]
>
> These would be examples of the kind of sarcophagi
> Weni speaks of that were transported from the
> southern quarries.
And that is your speculation, right? You don't really know that since they're not the boxes or the pyramids referred to in Weni's inscription. Now, can you show us a photo of the sarcophagus in the queen's pyramid, since that's what Weni was referring to?
> To wrap this up, the first few times he mention
> the pyramid he says "of the queen", which does
> make it appear these objects are for the queens
> tomb though not necessarily for her own pyramid.
> The latter few times he leaves this off which
> equally means the rest would be for the king's
> pyramid.
But Thanos, isn't that your speculation? Where does Weni call it the king's pyramid? Is there any other corroborative document that uses that name specifically for the king's pyramid? Weni simply repeats the exact same name as when he previously identifies the name as the queen's pyramid. I'm wondering if you are taking the English translations of such naming conventions too literally.
> It would seem, like I said, he is
> reffering to both the queen's tomb and his own
> pyramid. Burger's statement does not discount this
> and to quote Breasted of the same passage:
>
> "The exact place and meaning of the last
> three words ["of the queen"] are uncertain;
> possibly they refer to a burial place of the queen
> in connection with the pyramid."
>
> It would seem Breasted agrees with me.
Not really. You said "The latter few times he leaves this off which equally means the rest would be for the king's pyramid", which is far more certain than Breasted's more speculative "uncertain" and "possibly". It seems you've turned Breasted's possibility into your certainty.
But that's fine, I just tend toward the 2015 standard over the 1906 standard.
In any case, getting back to my original main point, nothing in Weni's inscription makes any reference to the original, contemporaneous construction of any major pyramid in 3rd millennium BC Egypt.
______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04-Mar-17 05:26 by Origyptian.
