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Origyptian Wrote:
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> First, it's interesting that Imhotep was so
> "legendary" as to be deified, but his deification
> only happened in Late Dynastic, centuries after
> his alleged death.
>
> And just as biblical names appear in ancient
> scriptures, Imhotep's name apparently occurs only
> twice as a contemporaneous figure -- in an
> inscription at the base of a Djoser statue, and
> also there's an instance of graffito. He also
> appears much later, e.g., in the Famine Stele
> inscription and a demotic papyrus, both dated
> centuries after his death.
>
> Is there more proof of Imhotep's existence than
> there is for the existence of biblical characters?
An interesting line from the MK, apparently part of a song:
It should be noted that nowhere in AE literature is Imhotep credited as the builder or architect of the Step Pyramid nor the genius behind the sudden stone working explosion of the beginning of the 3rd Dynasty. This comes from Manetho.
The contemporary inscription found on the statue of Djoser (Netjerikhet) regrading Imhotep:
If Djoser were the king of a unified Egypt then why would Imhotep's different titles be separated to include both the king of "Upper" and "Lower" Egypt if they are in fact one and the same person? Technically the king is the king of both and commonly referred to as such, the problem is that Imhotep is designated "chancellor" to the king of the north and "first after" the king of the south. While the king may be ruler of the two lands, Imhotep is the charge of presumably one person so it strikes me as odd to separate his titles by the king of each land if they are one and the same. Personally, I have never been convinced Egypt was as "unified" as claimed in the early Dynastic period. Of note from this inscription as well is he is also "administrator of the great palace" which would most certainly be the palace facade building of the serekh:
Of interest as well, there are no contemporary inscriptions of a 3rd Dynasty king "Djoser" either.
Thanos:
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 28-Feb-17 03:36 by Thanos5150.
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> First, it's interesting that Imhotep was so
> "legendary" as to be deified, but his deification
> only happened in Late Dynastic, centuries after
> his alleged death.
>
> And just as biblical names appear in ancient
> scriptures, Imhotep's name apparently occurs only
> twice as a contemporaneous figure -- in an
> inscription at the base of a Djoser statue, and
> also there's an instance of graffito. He also
> appears much later, e.g., in the Famine Stele
> inscription and a demotic papyrus, both dated
> centuries after his death.
>
> Is there more proof of Imhotep's existence than
> there is for the existence of biblical characters?
An interesting line from the MK, apparently part of a song:
Quote
I have heard the sayings of Imhotep and Hordedef with whose words men speak so often. What are their habitations now? Their walls are destroyed, their habitations are no more, as if they had never been.
It should be noted that nowhere in AE literature is Imhotep credited as the builder or architect of the Step Pyramid nor the genius behind the sudden stone working explosion of the beginning of the 3rd Dynasty. This comes from Manetho.
The contemporary inscription found on the statue of Djoser (Netjerikhet) regrading Imhotep:
Quote
The chancellor of the king of Lower Egypt, the first after the king of Upper Egypt, administrator of the great palace, hereditary lord, Greatest of Seers, Imhotep, the builder, the sculptor, the maker of stone vases.
If Djoser were the king of a unified Egypt then why would Imhotep's different titles be separated to include both the king of "Upper" and "Lower" Egypt if they are in fact one and the same person? Technically the king is the king of both and commonly referred to as such, the problem is that Imhotep is designated "chancellor" to the king of the north and "first after" the king of the south. While the king may be ruler of the two lands, Imhotep is the charge of presumably one person so it strikes me as odd to separate his titles by the king of each land if they are one and the same. Personally, I have never been convinced Egypt was as "unified" as claimed in the early Dynastic period. Of note from this inscription as well is he is also "administrator of the great palace" which would most certainly be the palace facade building of the serekh:
Of interest as well, there are no contemporary inscriptions of a 3rd Dynasty king "Djoser" either.
Thanos:
Djed-SneferuQuote
This all reminds me of another fellow, Djoser, who is attributed with building the step pyramid at Saqqara yet curiously there is no pharaoh named Djoser until again, the 18th Dynasty, and the first connection of Djoser with the pharaoh whose name is found at the SP [step pyramid] presumed to have built it, Netjerikhet, is from the Ptolemaic period Famine Stela c. 200BC (Early Dynastic Egypt, Wilkinson p. 95)
It says:
Quote
Year 18 of Horns: Neterkhet; the King of Upper and Lower Egypt: Neterkhet; Two Ladies: Neterkhet; Gold-Horus: Djoser; under the Count, Prince, Governor of the domains of the South, Chief of the Nubians in Yebu, Mesir. There was brought to him [Djoser (emphasis mine)] this royal decree. To let you know:...
It this really all talking about the same person? Look again:
"Year 18 of Horns: Neterkhet; the King of Upper and Lower Egypt: Neterkhet; Two Ladies: Neterkhet; Gold-Horus:"
Netjerikhet, not "Djoser", is the King of Upper and Lower Egypt.
It then goes on to say:
"Djoser; under the Count, Prince, Governor of the domains of the South, Chief of the Nubians in Yebu, Mesir"
Djoser is not the "king", he is a "Prince", "Governor", and "Chief".
Further it says:
"There was brought to him this royal decree. To let you know:"
Who was brought this "royal decree"? The king is not "brought" royal decrees; he gives them. Which he then gives to Djoser the "Prince" and "Governor of the domains of the South".
Source
If the Famine Stela is the "proof" Netjerikhet and Djoser were one and the same, I find it less than convincing. Regardless of it being written over 2,000yrs after the fact, it does not appear to me to say what we have been told it does, but rather they are not in fact one and the same person; Djoser was the prince whom the decree was given by the king Netjerikhet. The Saqqara tablet of the 19th Dynasty (that would be the dynasty right after the 18th) does list a "Djoser" and "Djoser-tety" in succession, the latter associated with the 3rd Dynasty pharaoh "Sekhemkhet" on equally spurious grounds, but neither of these "Djoser names" appear contemporaneously in the 3rd Dynasty and appear to be once again a later construct of the 18th Dynasty.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 28-Feb-17 03:36 by Thanos5150.
