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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Origyptian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > Lifting one cover stone a foot or two and sliding
> > wood planks into the pit is a far cry from the
> > effort, knowledge, and resources required to build G1.
>
> But they didn't just "lift one block a foot or
> two"-they moved all the blocks into position. How
> do we know this? Because the the blocks are
> covered with quarry marks on multiple sides,
> including hieroglyphs, as well as the fact the
> blocks are sealed with mortar between the
> blocks. To quote Jenkins:
>
>
Quote

Marks made by the ancient quarrymen are
> still visible on many of the stones, hieroglyphs
> scrawled in red and yellow ochre and in lampblack.

The vast majority of painted marks could have been applied on exposed surfaces after completion of construction without ever moving any block other than 1 or 2 entry blocks (see below).



> They have the hasty and abbreviated look of
> foremen's instructions about how the stones were
> to be quarried. The marks apparently include
> references to measurements in cubits (the ancient
> Egyptian cubit was the equivalent of 52.3 cm)
,
> as well as the royal cartouche of Djedefre, the
> son of Cheops, the same cartouche that Mallakh had
> identified when he first uncovered the stones.
> With the exception of Djedefre's cartouche, which
> was already well known, the marks have not been
> identified. Further study may reveal more about
> ancient quarrying techniques. One thing the marks
> have established is the position of Djedefre in
> the Fourth Dynasty king-list: it seems certain
> that if he were the one to bury Cheops, he must
> logically have been Cheops' successor.

None of the major dimensions of the 1st boat pit show any indication of the use of a 52.3cm Egyptian cubit. Regarding the "hasty and abbreviated look", see my comment further down...



> From another source:
>
Quote

Eighteen cartouches bearing the name of
> King Dedefre, the builder of the incomplete
> Pyramid at Abu-Roash were found among the quarry
> marks on the upper surfaces of blocks Nos.
> 15, 19, 20, 23, 30, 34, 35 and 40, the lower
> surfaces of blocks
Nos. 5, 7, 9 and 20, the
> northern sides of blocks Nos. 34 and 38,
> and the eastern sides of blocks Nos. 5 and 33 (PI.
> XI, A).

What's ironic is that with all the bolding you've done, you missed the key point: "eastern sides".

It's easy to paint glyphs on the top, bottom, and north and south sides of those blocks while they're all still in situ (assuming 1 or 2 were lifted at one end to gain access to the pit). But there are 2 blocks that are reported to have glyphs painted on the eastern sides which might not have been possible if those blocks were already mortared to their eastern neighbors. And so I'd be very interested in whether those blocks were sticking up significantly farther than the neighboring blocks to the east and/or whether they can be more easily lifted than the others, and also where on the eastern surface those glyphs were found. For example, the investigators claim that the blocks were mortared together, so how did they see the glyphs if they were covered with mortar? Were all the joints not mortared? Were those glyphs painted onto the exposed surfaces of those 2 blocks (e.g, if they were taller than their neighbors)? We really cannot make assumptions about those glyphs based on that level of reporting.

By the way, what information do you think the presence of those glyphs conveys? Jenkins shows a selection of triangular painted graphics that had not yet been translated at the time of her printing. Has anyone translated them yet? If not, what's the problem?



> So they put quarry marks all over these blocks
> because they lifted "one stone" a foot and slid
> the pieces of the boat in? There is no doubt the
> AE placed the boat and the blocks.

Thanos, I get it, there is no doubt in your mind. I see other possibilities in the geometry and physics, and I see written documentation that's devoid of sufficient details about the physical evidence found in that investigation. If we disagree, I'm ok with that, but I see more possibilities than the traditional narrative.



> > I've never disagreed that copper/bronze can be
> > used to quarry the relatively smaller, softer,
> > local limestone slabs (not Aswan granite or the
> > 100+ ton cyclopean limestone beasts, e.g., at the
> > valley temple), lift it a few feet, and haul it on
> > sleds over relatively short distances.
>
> These are 15-20 blocks. The average block size of
> G1 is 2.5 tons. And I said before if you can lift
> a 20 ton block a few feet you can certainly lift a
> 2.5 ton block 4-5ft-the height of the courses of
> G1 which comprise what-99% of the blocks?

That's a forced analogy. The technology and effort required to create and position those boat pit blocks is trivial compared to what's required to build all those megalithic pyramids within that alleged 200 year span. And what's your explanation for the remaining "1%"? And by the way, the "2.5 ton" is "average" which means 50% of them were more than 2.5 tons, and many were much heavier than 15 tons, many weighing as much as 80 tons and made of granite placed 160' above ground level.

Nevertheless, based on the evidence I've seen so far, the geometry of the southern boat pits indicate other possibilities besides an "indisputable" 4th dynasty provenance.



> > But I think it unlikely the OK
> > would embark on such a boat pit project.
>
> They obviously did exactly such things:
> [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> Or are you going to argue this is not a boat pit?

Of course I am, or at least I'm going to continue arguing that there's no proof it was originally designed to be a boat pit. Do you believe they must have been boat pits simply because the walls are tapered? That's a very big stretch in logic, in my opinion. It reminds me of when so many people mischaracterized the shafts in the QC as being "air shafts" when they seem to really be no such thing, any more than the QC has anything to do with a "queen" and the KC has anything to do with a "king" (other than the traditional inferences drawn in modern times based on roof geometry).



> Yes, the southern pits are different in shape
> which does suggest they may have had a different
> function originally, but the fact is the AE buried
> boats inside of them and covered them with dozens
> of 15-20 blocks nonetheless. Why waste a perfectly
> good trench just to build another for a boat that
> will easily fit?

So you're acknowledging that those southern pits may indeed have already been there for the dynastics to repurpose after their original construction, and so they may in fact not have been originally designed to house boats. I can accept as "possibility" (not yet "fact" though) that the dynastics reused that "perfectly good trench" that they found there. But I see no reason to accept as "fact" that those cover stones were not already installed in place as well. Otherwise, what purpose would you attribute to such a rectangular "perfectly good trench" found without a cover?

It's been suggested earlier in this discussion that the boats had to have been "buried" in an open pit because of the requirement of a religious ceremony. Not only is that speculation, it contradicts the "why waste a perfectly good trench" if the ceremony also required the trench to be tapered as are the others. Likewise, if the OK were able to hew a 60'-100' deep shaft which terminates in a chamber deep in the bedrock for various matabas and funerary storage (e.g., Hetepheres), the same could have been done for boats which would have secured them as undetected and sealed from the environment far more easier than what's been found there.



> > On the other hand, prying one or two end
> > stones loose from the mortar and wedging it up 12"
> > so that the boat parts could be loaded by humans
> > into the pit would not be impossible for the OK
> > bronze agers.
>
> Nor would digging the pit in the first place and
> covering them with dozens of 15-20 blocks as we
> know they did. I find it silly that the most you
> are willing to allow these primitive "stinky
> footed bumpkins" is the ability to barely lift
> just one block a mere 12" so they could have just
> enough room (in your uninformed opinion) to slide
> in over 1200 ship components some of which were
> 75ft long weighing at least 1 ton.

It might be silly, but it's not what I said. I never said all they could do was "barely lift just one block a mere 12 inches", I said that's all they needed to do since the pit and cover stones may already have been there when the dynastics arrived on the scene.

Why do you believe they would have trouble sliding pieces of cedar that are up to 1 ton and 75' long into that pit?



> Not only that,
> they were also able to place the boat with great
> care in order of assembly through this 12" hole
> and while they were at it drew quarry marks all
> over the blocks on multiple sides for blocks you
> claim they did not even quarry.

The painting of glyph instructions for quarrying the dozens 15 ton cover stones was "hasty and abbreviated", and yet the wooden parts were placed "with great care"? Perhaps they only appeared hasty and abbreviated because of the awkwardness of painting into the relatively narrow spaces on the north and south side, or with the limited lighting on the underside once the workers entered the pit through an end breach.

And I didn't say it would have been a 12 inch "hole". If they were able to lift an entire end block, the breach could be a 1' high (or more) entry point that spanned the entire width of the pit. Plenty of room to fit a work group that could insert and place all that wood "with great care" within the 32m long, 3.3m deep pit.

I don't know what your point is about emphasizing "with great care". The parts were stacked directly on top of each other with barely a layer of fabric inserted between every other layer. Other than half a handful of small limestone blocks, no shelving or structural supports were used to position the wood components. As a result, the bottom layers essentially turned into dust due to the pressure and mosture over the millennia. There was no diagram in the pit indicating how to assemble the parts of the 1st boat pit, so Hag tried 4 different reconstruction arrangements before he settled on the final version, and there still were parts left over. Meanwhile, the alleged rope lashings were found piled in a rat's nest disarray and not placed in any orderly fashion whatsoever, let alone with great care:



As I said, no torches were used since any stray cinder would have torched the place. The fact is, what was found in the pit could have been inserted there by a handful of men in low reflected lighting after lifting one or two blocks toward one end of the pit.



> > I believe it would be easy to slide a 75' plank
> > into the 3m deep, 32m long pit through a 1'
> > opening made by lifting an end block with copper
> > prybars and wood support wedges.
>
> The point is moot as we know they did not do this,
> but it is impossible as you are describing it
> regardless. Think about it-you are trying to slide
> in a one ton 75ft long piece of wood at ground
> level though a 1ft hole into a chamber barely 10ft
> deep. You would have to dig a long deep trench
> leading to the hole to create sufficient angle to
> get it into the chamber. I'm sure some brainiac
> out there can do the math.

A long trench leading to the hole is unnecessary. The geometry is such that a 23m piece of wood can fit easily into a 32m, 3.3m deep pit if only 1 or 2 blocks were lifted at one end. If the wood is curved (such as a piece of the hull), all the more likely only a single block needed to be lifted, especially adjacent to the small "ramp" at the end of the pit reported by M&R which may have been created to increase the size of the opening once the end block was lifted - otherwise, making such a "ramp" on an incline into the pit doesn't makes little sense:




> > I see no need to
> > hew a separate long ramp as you described.
>
> Well, you would regardless, but this comment was
> directed to your question of why did they not just
> bury the boat in one piece which to do so, of
> course, you would have to cut a long deep trench.

I never meant that the boat would be "buried" in one piece. I was thinking that it would be installed directly into G1 in one piece. That could have been a lot easier since it precludes the needs to construct the pit and to also quarry, shape, transport, and position the cover stones, and it also reduces the amount of masonry needed in G1 since it would include another large empty cavity akin to the GG. I understand there might be a reason to not actually install the ship into G1 while the king was still alive, but they certainly could have brought the wooden components into G1 and then reassembled it in place as part of the funerary proceedings. Otherwise, why go rogue only with boats and specifically preclude them from joining the rest of the funerary deposit? For that matter, why mention "Djedefre" 18 times in the first boat pit without a single mention of Khufu if Djedefre really did construct those pits for his dad in memoriam?



> > I do see a very short ramp at one end of the pit which
> > could have been used to facilitate the installment
> > of wooden parts into the pit from that end.
>
> I don't and regardless it does not matter as the
> quarry marks are incontrovertible proof they did not.

The ramp is there (see the above illustration).
What do the quarry marks say that incontrovertibly prove to you how the wooden parts were installed into the pit?



> > I highly doubt they would bring torches with them
> > into the pit for fear of turning the wood into a
> > bonfire with each falling cinder from the torch.
>
>
> Well, good luck for them getting in your 12" hole
> in the first place-but of course they would need
> torches. In your scenario there would be workers
> inside this pit for hours at a time responsible
> for perfectly placing all the boat parts in order
> not to mention drawing all of the quarry marks on
> the underside of all those blocks they didn't
> actually quarry.

For that matter, where are all the torch marks in the subterranean chamber and passage in G1 or any other pyramid with excavations into bedrock? I'm quite sure workers were down in the bowels of the pyramid FAR longer than what it took to hew the southern boat pit, and yet no ancient torch marks are seen as an artifact of the original construction (not to mention how they were able to breath amidst all that dust and a narrow 150' long tunnel up to the surface as their sole air supply).

Meanwhile, it's well accepted that the OK had the wherewithal to develop rudimentary light reflectors, e.g., made of polished stone or copper sheets (the latter having the advantage of being able to easily focus the light). And so it certainly was highly likely that the 4th Dynasty was able to direct light through a 1' tall, 7' wide opening into an otherwise covered pit located right there at the surface of the bedrock.



> > I also disagree with your assessment of the effort
> > to hew a "gallery" cave vs. the open pit with cover slabs.
>
> To carve a cave you have to have a vertical
> surface to cut into in the first place, like a
> hill, which there is not next to the pyrmaids. And
> regardless, we know for a fact they did not want
> to do this for boat burials which they obviously
> wanted as close to the pyramid as possible.

It's only "obvious" if you already subscribe to your stated perspective which has not yet actually been proven. By stating it's "obvious", or "incontrovertible", or definitely intended to house a boat only shows a bias to make the narrative self-consistent without considering the true limitations and ambiguities of the evidence.



> Again: [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> The effort to make this boat pit was not much less
> if not equal to the southern pits given the extra
> craftsmanship required to shape it yet they did
> not think it "easier" or "better" to cut a gallery
> out of a hillside and obviously choose to cut a
> trench right there on the plateau just like all of
> the other boat pits.

And perhaps that's because the southern pits were built before the dynastic period and we never originally intended to house any boat in the first place. Besides which, I am skeptical that the 2 southern, if any, pits were originally designed to house any funerary boats.



> We do not need to wonder or
> make things up that are not there as we can see
> exactly how they made these boats pits right at
> this very location which every single one are
> trenches, not galleries.

So then why "make up" the notion that those tapered pits were originally intended to house boats? Why "make up" the notion that only boats were relegated to the back of the bus (ie, not included with the rest of the funerary deposit)? And why would the southern boats not be included within, rather than under, the confines of the perimeter wall demarcating the funerary domain?



> > Although some wooden planks are scratched leaving
> > the appearance that they once were used as
> > functioning boats, I do not believe the
> > reconstructed boat would actually float.
>
> So was this just a copy of something from the LC
> they did not understand but made one just like it
> anyways? Then they found this weird trench they
> were able to lift one block 12" and bury it in
> complete darkness and just for the fun of it drew
> quarry marks all over the blocks to pretend like
> they quarried them when they really didn't? Sounds
> perfectly reasonable.
>
> So they made this highly complex ship just like
> all of their other ships yet this could not
> actually float like the other ships:
> [www.touregypt.net]
> [s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com]
>
> The Abydos boats as well as others were found
> using the same system so I guess they were all
> fake boats which they pictured themselves sailing
> in fake boats, making fake boats, talking about
> their adventures and trades in the fake boats
> which all just so happened to be just like the
> actual boats.
>
> Herodotus:
>
Quote

Their boats with which they carry cargoes
> are made of the thorny acacia, of which the form
> is very like that of the Kyrenian lotos, and that
> which exudes from it is gum. From this tree they
> cut pieces of wood about two cubits in length and
> arrange them like bricks, fastening the boat
> together by running a great number of long bolts
> through the two-cubits pieces; and when they have
> thus fastened the boat together, they lay
> cross-pieces over the top, using no ribs for the
> sides; and within they caulk the seams with
> papyrus. They make one steering-oar for it, which
> is passed through the bottom of the boat; and they
> have a mast of acacia and sails of papyrus. These
> boats cannot sail up the river unless there be a
> very fresh wind blowing, but are towed from the
> shore: from this acacia tree they cut planks 3
> feet long, which they put together like courses of
> brick, building up the hull as follows: they
> joined these three foot lengths together with long
> close set dowels; when they have built up the hull
> in this fashion they stretch cross beams over
> them. They use no ribs, and they caulk the seams
> from the inside, using papyrus....
>
> Another fairy tale from ancient historians I presume.

Apparently yes, since the vast majority of wood found in boat pits is Lebanese cedar and not acacia, and his description of the construction doesn't seem to apply to what we see assembled from the wood from the first boat pit.



> ...
> > There are far too many unexplained enigmas about
> > the pit and the wooden parts that prevent me from
> > jumping to the conclusion that those pits were
> > definitely designed originally as boat graves.
>
> There are no "enigmas" regarding the boat's
> functionality and regardless of what the two
> southern pits were made for originally there is
> zero doubt they ended up being used as boat pits
> covered by dozens of 15-20 blocks quarried moved
> and placed by the Dynastic Egyptians. This is the
> point of the OP.

And I disagree. The southern pits are loaded to the gills with enigmas.

I'm simply trying to assess possibilities that are supported, and not contradicted, by the evidence, and there seems to be more than one viable paradigm. But how does one objectively assess the likelihood of each component within each paradigm without falling into the "associative" trap which may be based on faulty presumptions at the outset?

Meanwhile, I'd love to find more details about the paint marks. I am unaware of any translation of those marks (other than discussed above) found inside either southern boat pit.

______________________________________________________________
How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12-Sep-16 15:23 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 4630 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 03:30
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 831 eyeofhorus33 04-Sep-16 06:28
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 762 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 19:18
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 812 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 08:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 812 DUNE 04-Sep-16 10:12
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 777 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 10:24
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 794 DUNE 04-Sep-16 10:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 705 DUNE 04-Sep-16 11:22
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 794 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 18:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 706 DUNE 04-Sep-16 18:23
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 726 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 18:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 734 cladking 04-Sep-16 21:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 623 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 21:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 750 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 06:09
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 666 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 16:24
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 751 Jon Ellison 05-Sep-16 17:14
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 633 cladking 05-Sep-16 22:10
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 765 Jon Ellison 04-Sep-16 11:26
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 790 Thanos5150 04-Sep-16 17:03
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 578 Steve Clayton 04-Sep-16 18:25
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 750 Steve Clayton 04-Sep-16 18:55
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 686 cladking 04-Sep-16 20:21
Boats R Us 618 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 702 jamesglory 08-Sep-16 06:06
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 616 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 18:09
Re: Khufu's Boats used in their Pits 649 DScribr 09-Sep-16 18:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 713 jamesglory 16-Sep-16 05:45
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 710 jamesglory 26-Sep-16 13:22
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 600 cladking 26-Sep-16 14:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 570 Thanos5150 27-Sep-16 00:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 762 jamesglory 27-Sep-16 06:43
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 730 Thanos5150 27-Sep-16 17:53
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 595 DUNE 15-Oct-16 10:58
Khufu I/Block 20 513 Dr. Troglodyte 15-Oct-16 18:13
Re: Khufu I/Block 20 623 Thanos5150 15-Oct-16 21:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 622 Origyptian 18-Oct-16 00:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 605 DUNE 18-Oct-16 07:56
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 648 Thanos5150 18-Oct-16 16:50
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 531 DUNE 18-Oct-16 17:00
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 687 Thanos5150 18-Oct-16 17:36
Re: Khufu's Boats-to be built by others..... 701 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:07
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 757 cladking 04-Sep-16 20:26
Re: Water erosion 822 Thunderbird 05-Sep-16 14:36
Re: Water erosion 633 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 16:18
Re: Water erosion 757 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 16:50
Re: Water erosion 574 Thanos5150 05-Sep-16 17:46
Re: Water erosion 709 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 22:12
Re: Water erosion 622 Steve Clayton 05-Sep-16 16:58
Re: Water erosion 607 eyeofhorus33 05-Sep-16 17:29
Re: Water erosion 670 Merrell 05-Sep-16 17:46
Re:Control the conversation.....tantrum. ... 700 Thunderbird 05-Sep-16 20:14
Re: Re:Control the conversation.....tantrum. ... 700 Martin Stower 05-Sep-16 20:55
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 676 Thunderbird 06-Sep-16 04:57
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 692 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 21:06
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 604 cladking 06-Sep-16 21:51
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 714 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 21:56
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 689 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 23:21
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 621 cladking 07-Sep-16 00:11
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 509 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:23
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 633 cladking 07-Sep-16 19:07
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 631 DScribr 08-Sep-16 01:17
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 671 cladking 08-Sep-16 13:39
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 622 Origyptian 08-Sep-16 23:56
Re: How knowledge challenged the Fringe 559 cladking 09-Sep-16 00:52
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 577 Martin Stower 06-Sep-16 23:13
Re: How knowledge challenged the Egyptology 785 cladking 07-Sep-16 00:17
Stream of Consciousness 681 eyeofhorus33 06-Sep-16 19:33
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 657 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 12:55
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 616 cladking 06-Sep-16 14:03
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 620 Steve Clayton 06-Sep-16 17:28
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 590 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 18:08
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 595 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 12:40
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 617 cladking 07-Sep-16 14:19
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 640 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 18:23
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 632 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 18:34
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 643 Origyptian 06-Sep-16 19:16
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 628 Jon Ellison 06-Sep-16 23:38
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 884 Thanos5150 06-Sep-16 23:41
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 623 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 14:17
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 595 cladking 07-Sep-16 14:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 647 Steve Clayton 07-Sep-16 15:46
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 662 cladking 07-Sep-16 16:24
Galleries :: Graves 689 Dr. Troglodyte 08-Sep-16 23:33
Re: Galleries :: Graves 669 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 00:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 845 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 03:32
Re: Galleries :: Graves 638 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:21
Re: Galleries :: Graves 580 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 16:52
Re: Galleries :: Graves 767 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 19:00
Re: Galleries :: Graves 638 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 21:54
Re: Galleries :: Graves 613 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 23:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 645 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 23:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 619 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 05:50
Re: Galleries :: Graves 683 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 06:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 651 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 17:29
Re: Galleries :: Graves 780 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 21:06
Re: Galleries :: Graves 645 cladking 10-Sep-16 21:30
Re: Galleries :: Graves 736 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 15:06
Re: Galleries :: Graves 681 Thunderbird 12-Sep-16 15:36
Re: Galleries :: Graves 591 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 01:41
Re: Galleries :: Graves 650 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 02:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 668 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 04:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 781 Morten 13-Sep-16 09:05
Thanks for the link 612 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:04
Re: Galleries :: Graves 676 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:01
Re: Galleries :: Graves 583 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 17:03
Boat Graves-one answer. 655 DScribr 13-Sep-16 17:27
Re: Galleries :: Graves 559 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 02:57
Re: Galleries :: Graves 625 cladking 09-Sep-16 03:25
Close enough 657 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:02
Re: Close enough 541 cladking 09-Sep-16 21:03
Re: Close enough 654 DScribr 10-Sep-16 00:33
Re: Close enough 653 cladking 10-Sep-16 01:09
Re: Galleries :: Graves 611 Dr. Troglodyte 09-Sep-16 15:43
Re: Galleries :: Graves 593 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 18:02
It wasn't 656 DScribr 07-Sep-16 16:06
Re: It wasn't 695 Origyptian 08-Sep-16 23:45
At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 622 DScribr 09-Sep-16 01:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 635 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 12:55
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists!!! 610 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 597 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:06
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 648 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 14:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 605 cladking 09-Sep-16 14:35
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 705 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 19:22
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 659 Jon Ellison 09-Sep-16 20:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 679 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 21:41
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 669 Thanos5150 09-Sep-16 22:17
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 644 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 16:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 644 Thanos5150 10-Sep-16 21:39
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 710 DScribr 11-Sep-16 02:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 584 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 03:27
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 855 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 01:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 618 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 03:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 664 cladking 12-Sep-16 03:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 655 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 17:48
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 632 Martin Stower 12-Sep-16 20:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 618 cladking 12-Sep-16 20:49
Re: Shred of evidence : ) 646 Thunderbird 12-Sep-16 21:19
Re: Shred of evidence : ) 624 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 00:00
Sphinx 639 DScribr 13-Sep-16 00:43
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 662 Thanos5150 12-Sep-16 21:04
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 604 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 00:21
Mainstream evidence still exists.... 537 DScribr 13-Sep-16 00:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 592 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 04:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 601 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 04:31
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 576 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 13:27
Ergo, Adaption! 492 DScribr 13-Sep-16 15:33
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 552 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 15:52
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 615 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 16:47
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 551 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 16:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 613 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 16:58
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 539 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 18:15
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 613 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:01
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 566 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 615 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 00:38
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 554 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 02:24
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 518 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 16:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 585 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 16:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 610 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 19:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 593 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 20:19
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 566 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:10
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 599 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 593 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 02:12
Overruled!!! 498 DScribr 14-Sep-16 03:12
Re: Overruled!!! 628 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:02
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 551 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 12:19
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 573 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 17:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 605 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:17
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 572 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 22:22
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 585 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:39
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 637 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:51
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 629 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 00:55
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 585 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 22:30
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 497 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:37
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 620 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 22:32
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 544 Thanos5150 13-Sep-16 23:51
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 616 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 00:56
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 525 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 01:33
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 607 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 02:34
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 578 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 12:00
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 616 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:30
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 585 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 15:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists.... 577 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 18:39
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 585 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 22:36
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 591 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 23:17
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 608 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 23:34
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 509 Origyptian 16-Sep-16 20:37
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 677 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 23:52
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 615 DScribr 17-Sep-16 00:45
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 685 Jon Ellison 17-Sep-16 07:45
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 588 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 15:56
A polite and academic style of writing. 556 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:35
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 594 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 15:25
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 621 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 16:16
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 565 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 17:59
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 604 Martin Stower 17-Sep-16 20:57
MS and DScribr are really the same person!!!.......Film @ 11. 612 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 605 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 22:21
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 543 Martin Stower 18-Sep-16 00:27
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 596 Thanos5150 18-Sep-16 00:52
Misleading still exists... 584 DScribr 18-Sep-16 01:26
Re: Misleading still exists... 559 randompHactor 18-Sep-16 02:45
Re: Misleading still exists... 582 Barbelo 18-Sep-16 11:32
Re: Misleading still exists... 610 DScribr 18-Sep-16 13:55
Re: Misleading still exists... 565 randompHactor 18-Sep-16 15:16
Re: Misleading still exists... 462 DScribr 18-Sep-16 19:30
Re: Misleading still exists... 575 Origyptian 18-Sep-16 20:46
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists... 562 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 18:45
Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 532 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:40
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 606 Origyptian 18-Sep-16 20:53
Re: STILL Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 732 DScribr 19-Sep-16 00:41
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 623 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 17:50
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim 466 cladking 19-Sep-16 18:06
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 499 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:06
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 667 cladking 20-Sep-16 14:29
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 590 Jon Ellison 20-Sep-16 16:46
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 654 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:34
They were sealed during the late 4th D. 637 DScribr 20-Sep-16 17:23
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 522 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:44
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 680 Jon Ellison 24-Sep-16 20:03
Re: They were sealed during the late 4th D. 580 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 03:52
Re: Awaiting Proof Of Ori's Pillaging Claim-avoiding responsibility.... 578 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:29
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 585 Thanos5150 17-Sep-16 18:01
Mainstream evidence exists... 617 DScribr 17-Sep-16 21:49
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 585 Origyptian 17-Sep-16 21:56
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 576 Thanos5150 17-Sep-16 23:53
Summary perspective of el-Jarf 587 Origyptian 19-Sep-16 20:30
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 608 Martin Stower 19-Sep-16 22:55
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 600 Thanos5150 19-Sep-16 23:40
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 611 Corpuscles 20-Sep-16 00:43
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 599 Thanos5150 20-Sep-16 02:05
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 585 Corpuscles 20-Sep-16 23:50
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 595 cladking 21-Sep-16 00:38
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 565 Origyptian 20-Sep-16 05:09
Re: Summary perspective of el-Jarf 645 Martin Stower 20-Sep-16 10:10
'The Truth' 589 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:20
Re: 'The Truth' 505 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:31
Re: 'The Truth' 621 Martin Stower 24-Sep-16 00:41
Re: 'The Truth' 616 Origyptian 24-Sep-16 17:11
Re: 'The Truth' 651 Martin Stower 24-Sep-16 19:21
Re: 'The Truth' 622 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 04:13
Re: 'The Truth' 631 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 13:30
Re: 'The Truth' 575 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 15:45
Re: 'The Truth' 584 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 18:15
Re: 'The Truth' 546 Origyptian 25-Sep-16 18:35
Re: 'The Truth' 557 Martin Stower 25-Sep-16 19:09
Tallet Misrepresented by Ori.......... 572 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:18
Perspective vs Fact 561 DScribr 20-Sep-16 12:12
Re: Perspective vs Fact 570 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:28
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 624 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 23:20
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 587 DScribr 16-Sep-16 00:40
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 564 Origyptian 16-Sep-16 01:53
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 578 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 14:05
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists...whether read-or not! 586 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:17
Galleries Correction 572 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:15
Re: At least (insufficient) Mainstream evidence exists... 503 Martin Stower 16-Sep-16 14:24
Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 550 DScribr 14-Sep-16 03:25
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 598 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 15:15
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 605 DScribr 14-Sep-16 16:04
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 579 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 21:44
Fringe-in-denial.... .... 605 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:34
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 501 cladking 15-Sep-16 18:35
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 485 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 19:40
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 562 cladking 15-Sep-16 19:56
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 551 Origyptian 15-Sep-16 20:53
Re: Fringe-in-denial.... .... 570 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 22:10
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 629 Thanos5150 15-Sep-16 03:06
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 545 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 09:17
Re: Misleading is a way of life here for some..... 535 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:37
Life Unfair! 591 DScribr 15-Sep-16 17:36
Wadi el Jarf evidence exists 544 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:14
Re: At least Mainstream evidence exists...or does it?!? 677 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:09
Re: It wasn't 619 Martin Stower 09-Sep-16 12:37
Got Pics? 548 DScribr 09-Sep-16 19:17
Re: It wasn't 959 M. J. Thomas 09-Sep-16 13:09
Re: It wasn't 594 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 13:26
Re: It wasn't 589 eyeofhorus33 09-Sep-16 15:54
Re: It wasn't 526 Origyptian 09-Sep-16 15:56
Re: Saqqara 633 Thunderbird 09-Sep-16 17:01
Re: Saqqara 631 cladking 09-Sep-16 17:18
Re: Djedefre. ...your Fired ! 584 Thunderbird 10-Sep-16 03:38
Re: It wasn't 546 Steve Clayton 10-Sep-16 01:08
Re: It wasn't 651 Origyptian 10-Sep-16 17:02
Re: It wasn't 736 Martin Stower 10-Sep-16 20:49
Re: It wasn't 664 Martin Stower 10-Sep-16 21:33
Re: It wasn't 581 Origyptian 12-Sep-16 00:53
Re: It wasn't 558 Martin Stower 12-Sep-16 20:43
Re: It wasn't 617 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 02:37
Re: It wasn't 584 Martin Stower 13-Sep-16 14:57
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 597 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 16:20
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 587 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 16:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 597 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 17:18
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 536 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 18:00
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 491 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 17:30
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 552 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 18:11
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 591 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 22:12
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 571 Jon Ellison 13-Sep-16 23:08
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 561 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 23:26
Lifting IS Required. 632 DScribr 14-Sep-16 12:35
Re: Lifting IS Required. 494 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 16:16
Re: Lifting IS Required. 625 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 16:43
Re: Lifting IS Required. 541 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 16:51
Re: Lifting IS Required. 625 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 18:16
Re: Lifting IS Required. 569 M. J. Thomas 14-Sep-16 18:35
Re: Lifting IS Required. 561 randompHactor 14-Sep-16 19:28
Re: Lifting IS Required. 570 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 20:01
Re: Lifting IS Required. 614 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 19:03
Re: Lifting IS Required. 729 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 20:02
Re: Lifting IS Required. 572 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 20:13
Re: Lifting IS Required. 656 Origyptian 14-Sep-16 21:58
Re: Lifting IS Required. 536 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:18
Re: Lifting IS Required. 510 Steve Clayton 15-Sep-16 01:05
Re: Lifting IS Required. 753 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 20:38
Re: Lifting IS Required. 667 Thanos5150 14-Sep-16 22:39
Re: Lifting IS Required. 410 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:18
Re: Lifting IS Required. 547 Martin Stower 14-Sep-16 23:32
Re: Lifting IS Required. 556 Jon Ellison 14-Sep-16 23:55
Re: Lifting IS Required. 600 Martin Stower 15-Sep-16 09:09
Re: Lifting IS Required. 581 Steve Clayton 14-Sep-16 19:42
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 538 Origyptian 13-Sep-16 17:02
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 515 Steve Clayton 13-Sep-16 17:38
Re: Khufu's Boats-How Did They Get There if Giza Was Built Before the Dynastic Period? 524 Steve Clayton 16-Sep-16 12:38
The Pharaoh's House 572 DScribr 16-Sep-16 15:14
Water 450 D-Archer 21-Sep-16 11:28
Re: Water 544 cladking 21-Sep-16 13:37
Saw pit? 592 Apap 22-Sep-16 00:13
Great idea. 468 cladking 22-Sep-16 02:00
Re: Great idea. 584 Apap 22-Sep-16 18:22
Re: Great idea. 610 cladking 22-Sep-16 19:13
Re: Saw pit? 651 Origyptian 23-Sep-16 19:52


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