R Avry Wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Ellison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > You are the one making the claim to know
> precisely
> > who why and when..
> > Not me.
>
> Assuming all of your arguments (and those of
> others) are CORRECT (that the pyramids were not
> built by the AEs), those arguments thereby claim
> the AEs did not build the pyramids. What I claim
> about them belonging to the 'accepted' time frame
> is irrelevant to the QUESTION IN THE OP.
>
> To repeat for god knows how many times: If indeed
> the pyramids were not built by the AEs, WHO BUILT
> THEM? In order to answer this, evidence for these
> alternate builders must be supplied. No evidence
> means you cannot define the builders.

That is correct, I cannot define the builders. In exactly the same way that I cannot define the builders of Goblekli Tepi.
Furthermore neither can you. You have no hard evidence.



>
> > For me it is "SOMEONE" as yet to be identified.
>
> Simple logic, John. How exactly does archaeology
> go about identifying someone?


At present It doesn't in exactly the same way that it doesn't for Goblekli Tepi.
It leaves the question unanswered. A mystery. Which is the only and correct conclusion.
Until such a time as sufficient evidence is available.
What's your problem with that?



>
> If you don't know the answer, you are a full-on
> moron. That's not being insulting, it is a fair
> value observation that you can't understand
> something so simple a )(&^G*% child could get it.

Is archaeology a "moron" for not identifying the builders of Goblekli Tepi and leaving the issue open?
You are saying that if you do not have evidence for something then you just make up a story to fill the gaps?.
You're calling me a moron. Take a look in the mirror.



> I am galactically stunned I have to write the next
> sentence: They identify 'someone' with artifacts,
> i.e. physical evidence.

What artifacts. What physical evidence? Please provide physical evidence of the tooling and technology that is a prerequisite for the construction of G1


>
> > Just like the builders of Goblekli Tepi.
> > No Evidence.
>
> Irrelevant deflection. We are not talking about
> Goblecki Tepi. Goblecki Tepi does not have an
> established society whereafter some group has
> claimed someone other than they built it long
> before 8-10k BCE. There is no pre-Gobeckli Tepi
> mysterious people being sought.

I am talking about Goblekli Tepi. So read and digest.
No evidence, therefore the issue is left open . Case unsolved .. Savvy?
There are "mysterious "lost" Goblekli Tepi people" being sought. The excavations are ongoing.


>
> > You are making the precise claim.
> > Not ME
>
> We have said over and over: Our claims of the
> pyramids being in the 3rd Millennium BCE are
> hereby SUSPENDED, i.e. we are tentatively AGREEING
> WITH YOU the AEs didn't build them in order to
> pose the question: If they were built by someone
> else, who built them, and to know who built them,
> we need evidence of the existence of these people.

Well you better start looking then.
Personally I'm more interested in the lost technology.


>
>
> If there is no evidence of these mysterious
> people, then they don't exist.

Therefore the builders of Gobleki Tepi also did not exist, or Stonehenge or Easter Island???


>
> This thread is really an attempt to get you to
> realize you have no evidence of a culture to have
> built the pyramids long before the 3rd Millennium
> BCE;

In that case your attempt is doomed to fail.



to come to grips with the simplistic
> observation that a claim the AEs didn't build the
> pyramids must be substantiated beyond just stating
> it.

We claim that the 4th AE did not have the technological capacity according to the orthodox archaeological record to construct the pyramids. Is that clear enough?



In this, it may be a valiant attempt by
> Lee to get you to see your problems with it all by
> forcing your mind to self-realize the situation
> once confronted with a grand dilemna.

Again your attempt at mind control has failed.
Get over it and deal with it.


>
> What we see from yourself, Philip, Sam and others
> is a complete failure for you to come to grips
> with the reality of 'no archaeological evidence
> means no people'.

No archaeological evidence means no archaeological evidence.
Do we have archaeological evidence for all cultures, societies and yes... civilizations that have ever existed??
If so how do we know that for sure?
How far back can archaeology reach? Where does paleontology take over?



It's not a problem you have with
> me, nor Egyptology, but with the entire discipline
> of archaeology and its associated disciplines the
> world over.

Incorrect again.
We use the 4th AE archaeological record to ably demonstrate the 4th AE lack of technical and mathematical wherewithal.
Modern archaeologists do not make claims that they cannot back up with physical evidence.
Hence... and this is not a deflection, it is an example.
Modern archaeologist make no claims about the builders of Goblekli Tepi. They have no evidence.
Modern standards of proof apply.
Therefore the builders of Goblekli Tepi are a Lost Culture/society or if you prefer Civilization.
And..
Until further hard evidence is forthcoming so are the builders of G1.