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Thanos5150 Wrote:
> Thanos5150 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Regarding the Abydos enclosures:

Each royal monument consisted of a ritual
> precinct open to the sky enclosed by massive
> mudbrick walls. The Institute’s excavations
> have
> resulted in the discovery of the earliest royal
> enclosures yet known, dating to the reign of king
> Aha at the beginning of the 1st Dynasty (ca. 3050
> BCE). The Institute’s work has also revealed
> important aspects of how these structures were
> used as the setting for ritual. Most
> surprisingly,
> it appears that these important royal monuments
> appear to have been deliberately, even ritually
> demolished and symbolically buried after only a
> short period of use, probably limited to the
> reign
> of the king for whom each was built.
> The known enclosures of the 1st Dynasty (ca.
> 3050-2900 BCE) were regularly accompanied by
> important ancillary features. Most were
> surrounded
> by lines of tombs
, and the Institute’s work
> has
> produced important new evidence that courtiers
> and
> retainers were sacrificed and entombed around the
> royal enclosure, probably so that they could
> accompany the king into the next world.
> one
> instance a royal enclosure was accompanied by the
> burials of ten donkeys in three brick tomb
> chambers, the earliest complete donkey skeletons
> ever discovered in the world. In another, one of
> the enclosures had associated graves that
> contained, not humans or animals, but,
> spectacularly, the wooden hulls of a fleet of
> fourteen large boats, the oldest built boats
> known. The boats and donkeys, like the sacrificed
> courtiers, were probably buried to be
> symbolically
> translated from this world to the next, to be
> available to the king there.
> [url=
> /abydos/abydos-early-monuments.htm]Source[/url]
> What I forgot to point out as well, is here in the
> 1st Dynasty we have these monumental "mortuary
> complex enclosures" for each pharaoh which
> [b]"most were surrounded by lines of tombs"[/b].
> The gruesome ritual of sacrificing select
> subjects, and there were many, to be buried
> alongside them notwithstanding, [i]a notably
> Mesopotamian custom mind you[/i], here we have the
> practice from the beginnings of Dynastic Egypt
> built on a foundation of monumental supposedly
> funerary structures built for the pharaoh in which
> the people are buried around it. [b]BUT-it is not
> a tomb. The actual tomb of the pharaoh is
> elsewhere in this case located a mile away. If in
> fact the pyramids were part of this long
> tradition, as many will claim (Warwick), then what
> expectation would there be that pyramids were ever
> intended to be tombs either?[/

This parallels my response in the new thread:

I never meant to imply that pyramids were an extension of the "Royal Forts/Enclosures of the Early Dynastic.

But, that Royal Forts/Enclosures were Demonstrative in nature. Thus supporting the notion of Constantly reemphasising the Power of the King's role in their society , culture, and beliefs.

Could it be that all or some of these early enclosures were tombs for the King?
Possible, but not very likely imho

Could it be that some Pyramids were cenotaphs?
Of course, we no of some attributed to Hun up and down the river.
And Sneferu couldn't have used all 3

But, where any of em tombs?
My understanding of the evidence says yes

Does the possibility that the King's were "finally" entombed elsewhere alter the demonstrative, belief driven impetus towards pyramid building by the OK rulers?

No. Not in my opinion


b] Again, we have a
> large monumental structure surrounded by the
> pharaohs subjects yet there is no pharaoh to be
> found buried inside.
> I am reminded once again of the words of Herodotus
> and Diodorus.
> Herodotus:
> [quote]For this, they [the Egyptian priests] said,
> the ten years were spent [to build the causeway],
> [b]and for the underground chambers on the hill
> upon which the pyramids stand, which he [Khufu]
> caused to be made as sepulchral chambers for
> himself in an island[/b], having conducted thither
> a channel from the Nile….
> This king [Khafre] followed the same manner as the
> other, both in all the rest and also in that he
> made a pyramid, not indeed attaining to the
> measurements of that which was built by the former
> [Khufu] (this I know, having myself also measured
> it), and moreover [b]there are no underground
> chambers beneath nor does a channel come from the
> Nile flowing to this one as to the other, in which
> the water coming through a conduit built for it
> flows round an island within, where they say that
> Cheops himself is laid[/b]: but for a basement he
> built the first course of Ethiopian stone of
> divers colours; and this pyramid he made forty
> feet lower than the other as regards size,
> building it close to the great pyramid. [/quote]
> Diodorus:
> [quote][b]Although these kings [Khufu and Khafre]
> intended these [G1 and G2] for their sepulchres,
> yet it happened that neither of them were buried
> there. For the people being exasperated against
> them by reason of the toilsomness of these works
> [building the pyramids], and for their cruelty and
> oppression, threatened to tear in pieces their
> dead bodies, and with ignominy to throw them out
> of their sepulchres. Wherefore both of them,
> dying, commanded their friends to bury them in an
> obscure place.[/b][/quote]
> Myself:
> [quote]Regardless of the validity of either of
> these tales, one thing that is common to both is
> they specifically make note of the fact the
> pharaohs were not buried within the pyramids
> themselves. This information came to Herodotus
> from Egyptian priests and Diodorus, I am assuming,
> from the histories of other writers before him
> which at their root would have come from earlier
> Egyptian sources as well. It is interesting then
> that the AE of these periods did not consider the
> pyramids of at least Khufu and Khafre, which
> neither source mention Menkaure's burial place, to
> be the actual places they were buried.[/quote]
> [url=,10
> 42844]Giza Pyramids as Tombs in the Words of
> Herodotus and Diodorus[/url]

Herodotus cannot be completely ignored but I suggest that everyone should read reread or Google his complete commentary on Gaza and Khufu. Those priests definitely told a few porky pies about him, who is to say that the "King is/was not there was the truth? They were priests. They definitely would have had an agenda in that regard.

I will note however, when it comes to Herodotus I believe he believed every thing he wrote down. More than an historian, he was a very dependable journalist with no agenda but curiosity.


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 5305 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 01:34
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 795 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 02:53
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 790 Warwick 07-Jun-16 15:44
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 737 Graham Chase 07-Jun-16 19:14
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 807 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 21:04
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 668 Warwick 16-Jun-16 18:34
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 788 Thanos5150 16-Jun-16 20:52
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 723 charly 17-Jun-16 17:55
Re: Additional Thought regarding Abydos Royal Enclosures 1194 Thanos5150 17-Jun-16 21:36
Re: Decoration in pyramids and mastabas 818 charly 02-Jan-17 18:48
Re: Decoration in pyramids and mastabas 1493 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 22:56
Re: Djoser Blue Faience Tiles 897 Thunderbird 03-Jan-17 01:53
Abydos Royal Enclosures possibly are cenotaphs 704 DScribr 16-Jun-16 00:46
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 708 Graham Chase 07-Jun-16 13:21
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 873 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 21:47
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 741 Graham Chase 08-Jun-16 09:48
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 737 Thanos5150 08-Jun-16 16:01
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 780 Thunderbird 09-Jun-16 02:44
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 2124 Thanos5150 09-Jun-16 19:33
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 750 Thunderbird 09-Jun-16 22:41
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 722 loveritas 10-Jun-16 01:11
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 830 Thunderbird 10-Jun-16 02:14
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 933 Thanos5150 10-Jun-16 18:45
Re: Property marks 707 Thunderbird 10-Jun-16 21:22
Re: Property marks 807 Thanos5150 11-Jun-16 04:26
Re: ZAG SAKH ....Serekh? 864 Thunderbird 11-Jun-16 15:08
Re: ZAG SAKH ....Serekh? 1202 Thanos5150 11-Jun-16 19:59
Re: ZAG SAKH ....Serekh? 750 Thunderbird 11-Jun-16 20:25
Re: ZAG SAKH ....Serekh? 720 Thanos5150 11-Jun-16 20:46
Re: The Sickle 753 Thunderbird 11-Jun-16 21:21
Re: The Sickle 664 Eddie Larry 11-Jun-16 23:48
Re: The Sickle 694 Thunderbird 12-Jun-16 01:59
Re: The Sickle 694 Eddie Larry 12-Jun-16 02:04
Re: Khemitology 780 Thunderbird 12-Jun-16 15:05
Re: The Sickle 842 Thanos5150 12-Jun-16 03:30
Re: The Sickle 640 Eddie Larry 12-Jun-16 04:00
Re: The Sickle 677 Thanos5150 12-Jun-16 04:09
Re: The Sickle 623 Eddie Larry 12-Jun-16 04:16
Re: The Sickle 737 Thanos5150 12-Jun-16 05:07
Re: Ethnicity 994 Thanos5150 16-Jun-16 16:14
Senedj & Seth-Peribsen 757 Corpuscles 14-Jun-16 00:40
Re: Senedj & Seth-Peribsen 796 Thanos5150 14-Jun-16 01:14
Re: Senedj & Seth-Peribsen 718 Corpuscles 14-Jun-16 02:58
Re: Senedj & Seth-Peribsen 975 Thanos5150 14-Jun-16 04:59
Re: The Sickle 702 Warwick 16-Jun-16 19:26
Re: The Sickle 750 Thanos5150 12-Jun-16 01:20
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 699 Graham Chase 10-Jun-16 08:32
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 752 Eddie Larry 10-Jun-16 14:08
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 658 Warwick 12-Jun-16 17:32
Re: Dynasty 1 cut and dressed 639 Eddie Larry 12-Jun-16 20:35
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 616 Warwick 07-Jun-16 15:13
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 664 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 20:19
Books 812 Warwick 07-Jun-16 20:36
Re: Books 679 Thanos5150 07-Jun-16 21:15
Re: Books 734 Warwick 07-Jun-16 21:23
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 789 Thunderbird 07-Jun-16 21:59
Re: Foreign Spiritual Influence 673 Thunderbird 07-Jun-16 22:54
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 656 Thanos5150 08-Jun-16 04:02
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 781 Thunderbird 08-Jun-16 06:48
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 672 Audrey 08-Jun-16 16:37
Re: Ancient Symbols 852 Thunderbird 08-Jun-16 17:21
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 779 Thanos5150 08-Jun-16 17:30
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 722 Thunderbird 08-Jun-16 21:38
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 762 DScribr 16-Jun-16 01:01
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 668 Thanos5150 16-Jun-16 17:21
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 674 DScribr 17-Jun-16 00:58
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 678 Thanos5150 17-Jun-16 03:10
Re: Troubles with the 2nd Dynasty. 672 DScribr 17-Jun-16 17:45

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