I always appreciate your magnificent storehouse of pictures. Thanks.
I thought I was pretty much done here (this thread), but you ask some questions I will try to answer.
I have deleted some of the claptrap relating to my 'hypothetical' but thanks for answering. The response was consistent with what I expected.
I reverse order some of your stuff
> Give me a picture of an AE stone vase you think
> defies all explanation.
Many of the pictures you provided in your reply almost meet this condition if we limit the technology to that batcrazy primitive contraption pictured as being an AE drill and as promoted by D Stocks.
Obviously the one you note is quite large was not made using one of those contraptions neither were the fine tapered drinking vessels.
However you go on to acknowledge that all these creators must have had a lathe. Eureka!
> Nope. But Petrie makes it pretty clear they must
> have had lathes which is pretty obvious even to
> the laymen. Let me ask you-what kind of
> contraption could be built using these same
> materials that could create this balance?
The most outstanding for me, not because of beauty or elaborate work is the balanced on a point bowl as made famous by Chris Dunn.
You unfortunately seem to arrived very late in this thread. No problemo!, but you seemed to have missed or not understood the significance of a great deal of significant information.
Jon Ellison posted many very important technical things that I suspect most simply do not have the background experience or interest to understand . He posted a picture of an internal, centrigugal honing tool. It is on page 4 of the thread but it is large pic so ... PLEASE look it up if interested.
Something like that is required to delicately control tapering or internal wall width. Of course in conjunction with a power source and likely a spinning lathe, with very strict stable multi point anchoring.
(btw It would have cost you and your Mrs ... nothing! ;-) as I feel confident a replica could be made today but it would be a super high tech effort)
> When you look at how much of it there is from the
> archaic Dynastic period alone along with the
> machining that Petrie among others note, there
> seems no doubt they used mechanical advantage
> beyond handheld cranks with an environment able to
> produce them in volume. The point of noting modern
> and ancient examples of these tools is to show
> that you can in fact make similar stone vessels
> with relatively "primitive" technology. There
> comes a point, however, when such simple tools do
> not stand up to scrutiny, but in lieu of these
> tools how advanced must the other tools actually
> be? How could these principles be adapted using
> ingenious methods to create simple
> machines? The Romans used water powered bronze
> gang saws to fine cut large slabs of marble veneer
> 6ft long and few inches thick several at a time.
> Then they installed them. This is not space age
> technology yet it amazing nonetheless.
I am not (nor do I think Petrie) talking about a medieval rod type lathe. You know rope on a tree wrapped around a shaft and foot pedal operated. The precision of these things demand very controlled regulation of cutting tool tip application.
Further IMO it requires very sharp at the very least steel cutting tip.
For me it all comes down to this:
If the dating of several of these very hard stone artefacts is correct(???) THEN at the very least the iron and steel age much be pushed back several millenia. Further the sophisication of machinery that was designed and built to achieve it must be very SIGNIFICANTLY advanced , massively greater, than is credited by Egyptology and Archaeology.
I highly recommend you look up for a guest visit in your city either a recreational "mens shed" (term here in Australia). (Retired old blokes play around with both timber and metal lathes ....you know the ones who are not on the internet 24/7)
Try to connect to a metal fabrication engineering shop and ask for a brief look at what is involved in precision turning.
I say that for your and others futher education and enlightenment. I am no expert (but enough that I can tell easily that Jon E is and has politely contributed without much appreciation or acknowledgement). If you just did that you would drop this notion of hard stone being precision cut /shaped by those primitive contraptions... FAST!