Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Hello Brian.

OCaptain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos,
>
> It's always fascinating to see what mysteries
> people see in the past, and what answers they seek
> in the process. Thanks for sharing. If there's one
> thing I'd consider changing is your book title
> (I'm assuming that you might be playing around
> with book title ideas here?)

This is not the title of the book, just the thread. Presented here as stated is just an excerpt which has to do with the "Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth".

> It seems like your book idea is finding the
> historical origins of the Mesopotamian flood myth.

No. It is the first chapter, and regardless, many other books have been written on the Mesopotamian origins of the Biblical flood myth among other Biblical tales.

> I think it's confusing to potential readers to
> bring into it the biblical flood myth.

The Biblical flood myth is the most commonly known tale which just about anyone is familiar with which most do not realize is derived from earlier Mesopotamian tales. This chapter does not start here, but first goes into other flood myths around the world which share the same basic details with the idea being they all share a common origin with the oldest written form being found in Mesopotamia, therefore, the closer we are to the original the closer we are to the truth.

> We can look
> at the fact that Gilgamesh predates the OT by
> centuries - or millennia - depending on how you
> calculate it, all we want.

Which would be true.

> We can look at how
> there are similar-sounding turns of phrase in
> both, etc.

Not just "similar" but in some cases almost identical and in the same succession of the narrative. Again, but a few examples:

Quote

The sea grew calm and on the seventh day they rested on a peak of a mountain, which the Bible tell us it was the “seventh month”. And like Noah, Utnapishtim also released several birds until they did not come back meaning they had at last found dry land. And just like the Bible that tells us how after the ark had been evacuated, the “Lord smelled a sweet savour” of the burnt offerings, so too had the gods of the Epic of Gilgamesh “…smelled the sweet savour…” of the sacrifice.

These are not just "turns of a phrase".

> What we can't prove is that the
> biblical writers had access to Gilgamesh, the
> ability to read it and translate it, and were
> inclined to adopt its message - either in part or
> in whole.

Suggesting such is to be otherwise completely unaware of the history of the Hebrew people part of which I outline in the OP as told by the Bible itself. I did not make it up nor is it my "opinion". Regardless, the Mesopotamian origin of the Biblical flood myth is not original to me and has been widely accepted amongst scholars for quite some time.

Quote

"It is generally admitted that certain parallel ideas which are found expressed in the literature of ancient Israel concerning the creation of the world, and in a story of creation as handed down by the Babylonians, have a common origin...These and other points of resemblance, it is generally admitted leave no doubt as to there being a relationship between the cosmogony of Israel and that handed down by the Babylonians. It naturally followed that either the Biblical conception was borrowed from the Babylonian; or the Babylonian was borrowed from the Biblical; or both were founded on a common primitive source...Scholars generally have dismissed the second supposition as an impossibility' and the third is excluded on the ground that the stories contain a large percentage of Babylonian ideas. The Biblical conception of creation, therefore, they say, is of Babylonian origin...In the nearly fifty years which have passed since the first translation was made, this has become the prevailing view; and it has been generally accepted everywhere as fully established. "In fact," as the late Canon Driver has written, "no archaeologist questions that the Biblical cosmogony, however altered in form and stripped of its original polytheism, is, in its main outlines, derived from Babylonia."

(pp. 66- 67. "The Creation Story." Albert T. Clay. The Origin of Biblical Traditions, Hebrew Legends in Babylonia and Israel. New Haven. Yale University Press. 1923)

Even more true today as it was in 1923.

> I would suggest letting the Mesopotamian research
> and work stand on its own, because the biblical
> connections implied in your thread title are quite
> tenuous.

The connections are beyond reproach and universally accepted even by religious scholars. No one doubts they share a connection, the only argument, to the faithful anyway, is "what does it mean".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01-May-16 22:40 by Thanos5150.

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 3521 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 02:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1021 Audrey 26-Apr-16 04:38
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 924 R Avry Wilson 26-Apr-16 07:00
The Tower 986 loveritas 26-Apr-16 11:32
Re: The Tower 826 Thunderbird 26-Apr-16 16:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 926 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 17:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 786 R Avry Wilson 27-Apr-16 01:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1077 Thanos5150 27-Apr-16 17:15
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 823 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1155 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 21:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 Origyptian 30-Apr-16 23:19
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 781 Aine 01-May-16 22:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 738 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 2220 Thanos5150 28-Apr-16 23:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 854 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 771 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 22:18
The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 517 dmatherly 02-Jan-17 23:46
Re: The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 552 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 05:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1103 Origyptian 26-Apr-16 15:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 830 Thunderbird 27-Apr-16 20:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 854 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 16:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 695 OCaptain 01-May-16 20:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 792 Corpuscles 01-May-16 22:25
A Rather Close Family 901 loveritas 01-May-16 23:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 800 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 701 Eddie Larry 01-May-16 23:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 752 eli stills 02-May-16 02:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 882 Thanos5150 02-May-16 03:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 755 eli stills 02-May-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 834 Harte 02-May-16 09:48
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 748 eli stills 02-May-16 15:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 752 Origyptian 02-May-16 16:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 667 eli stills 03-May-16 00:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 716 Origyptian 03-May-16 21:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 707 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 21:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 649 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:02
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 795 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 22:13
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 842 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 829 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 733 Corpuscles 04-May-16 23:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 706 Origyptian 05-May-16 02:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 756 eli stills 04-May-16 01:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 702 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:09
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 765 Thanos5150 02-May-16 20:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 720 Harte 02-May-16 21:41
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 789 Thanos5150 02-May-16 22:14
Re: It was not......they will not listen 769 Thunderbird 02-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 748 Harte 03-May-16 00:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 743 Thanos5150 03-May-16 00:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 727 Harte 03-May-16 22:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 717 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:05
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 791 Eddie Larry 04-May-16 01:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 720 Harte 05-May-16 22:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 523 Eddie Larry 05-May-16 22:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 704 Harte 05-May-16 22:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 00:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 763 Harte 06-May-16 10:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 708 Origyptian 06-May-16 12:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 661 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 15:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 804 Harte 06-May-16 16:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 678 Aine 06-May-16 23:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 665 Thanos5150 06-May-16 23:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 771 Audrey 07-May-16 01:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 877 Harte 07-May-16 12:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 693 Audrey 07-May-16 17:55
Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 763 cladking 07-May-16 18:05
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 738 Audrey 07-May-16 18:40
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 775 cladking 07-May-16 18:57
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 723 Audrey 07-May-16 21:47
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 764 Origyptian 08-May-16 02:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 761 eyeofhorus33 08-May-16 05:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 665 Audrey 08-May-16 17:53
Enter Melchizedek 779 loveritas 02-May-16 05:31
Re: Enter Melchizedek 752 eli stills 02-May-16 15:44
Re: Enter Melchizedek 832 loveritas 02-May-16 21:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 700 Origyptian 02-May-16 03:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 753 OCaptain 04-May-16 23:16
Re:Plato 660 Thunderbird 09-May-16 01:24
An Allegory 622 loveritas 10-May-16 22:27
Re: An Allegory 739 Thanos5150 11-May-16 01:14
Re: An Allegory 663 Thunderbird 12-May-16 21:03
Re: An Allegory 590 loveritas 12-May-16 23:19
Re: An Allegory 638 Thunderbird 13-May-16 01:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 598 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 19:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 485 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-17 19:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 564 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 20:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 632 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-17 04:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 848 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 18:17


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.