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Hello Brian.

OCaptain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos,
>
> It's always fascinating to see what mysteries
> people see in the past, and what answers they seek
> in the process. Thanks for sharing. If there's one
> thing I'd consider changing is your book title
> (I'm assuming that you might be playing around
> with book title ideas here?)

This is not the title of the book, just the thread. Presented here as stated is just an excerpt which has to do with the "Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth".

> It seems like your book idea is finding the
> historical origins of the Mesopotamian flood myth.

No. It is the first chapter, and regardless, many other books have been written on the Mesopotamian origins of the Biblical flood myth among other Biblical tales.

> I think it's confusing to potential readers to
> bring into it the biblical flood myth.

The Biblical flood myth is the most commonly known tale which just about anyone is familiar with which most do not realize is derived from earlier Mesopotamian tales. This chapter does not start here, but first goes into other flood myths around the world which share the same basic details with the idea being they all share a common origin with the oldest written form being found in Mesopotamia, therefore, the closer we are to the original the closer we are to the truth.

> We can look
> at the fact that Gilgamesh predates the OT by
> centuries - or millennia - depending on how you
> calculate it, all we want.

Which would be true.

> We can look at how
> there are similar-sounding turns of phrase in
> both, etc.

Not just "similar" but in some cases almost identical and in the same succession of the narrative. Again, but a few examples:

Quote

The sea grew calm and on the seventh day they rested on a peak of a mountain, which the Bible tell us it was the “seventh month”. And like Noah, Utnapishtim also released several birds until they did not come back meaning they had at last found dry land. And just like the Bible that tells us how after the ark had been evacuated, the “Lord smelled a sweet savour” of the burnt offerings, so too had the gods of the Epic of Gilgamesh “…smelled the sweet savour…” of the sacrifice.

These are not just "turns of a phrase".

> What we can't prove is that the
> biblical writers had access to Gilgamesh, the
> ability to read it and translate it, and were
> inclined to adopt its message - either in part or
> in whole.

Suggesting such is to be otherwise completely unaware of the history of the Hebrew people part of which I outline in the OP as told by the Bible itself. I did not make it up nor is it my "opinion". Regardless, the Mesopotamian origin of the Biblical flood myth is not original to me and has been widely accepted amongst scholars for quite some time.

Quote

"It is generally admitted that certain parallel ideas which are found expressed in the literature of ancient Israel concerning the creation of the world, and in a story of creation as handed down by the Babylonians, have a common origin...These and other points of resemblance, it is generally admitted leave no doubt as to there being a relationship between the cosmogony of Israel and that handed down by the Babylonians. It naturally followed that either the Biblical conception was borrowed from the Babylonian; or the Babylonian was borrowed from the Biblical; or both were founded on a common primitive source...Scholars generally have dismissed the second supposition as an impossibility' and the third is excluded on the ground that the stories contain a large percentage of Babylonian ideas. The Biblical conception of creation, therefore, they say, is of Babylonian origin...In the nearly fifty years which have passed since the first translation was made, this has become the prevailing view; and it has been generally accepted everywhere as fully established. "In fact," as the late Canon Driver has written, "no archaeologist questions that the Biblical cosmogony, however altered in form and stripped of its original polytheism, is, in its main outlines, derived from Babylonia."

(pp. 66- 67. "The Creation Story." Albert T. Clay. The Origin of Biblical Traditions, Hebrew Legends in Babylonia and Israel. New Haven. Yale University Press. 1923)

Even more true today as it was in 1923.

> I would suggest letting the Mesopotamian research
> and work stand on its own, because the biblical
> connections implied in your thread title are quite
> tenuous.

The connections are beyond reproach and universally accepted even by religious scholars. No one doubts they share a connection, the only argument, to the faithful anyway, is "what does it mean".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01-May-16 22:40 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 3486 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 02:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1013 Audrey 26-Apr-16 04:38
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 907 R Avry Wilson 26-Apr-16 07:00
The Tower 974 loveritas 26-Apr-16 11:32
Re: The Tower 813 Thunderbird 26-Apr-16 16:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 916 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 17:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 778 R Avry Wilson 27-Apr-16 01:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1065 Thanos5150 27-Apr-16 17:15
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 814 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1073 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 21:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 735 Origyptian 30-Apr-16 23:19
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 771 Aine 01-May-16 22:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 728 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 2199 Thanos5150 28-Apr-16 23:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 845 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 761 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 22:18
The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 503 dmatherly 02-Jan-17 23:46
Re: The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 541 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 05:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 974 Origyptian 26-Apr-16 15:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 812 Thunderbird 27-Apr-16 20:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 844 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 16:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 686 OCaptain 01-May-16 20:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 782 Corpuscles 01-May-16 22:25
A Rather Close Family 887 loveritas 01-May-16 23:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 792 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 692 Eddie Larry 01-May-16 23:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 742 eli stills 02-May-16 02:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 871 Thanos5150 02-May-16 03:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 eli stills 02-May-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 824 Harte 02-May-16 09:48
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 739 eli stills 02-May-16 15:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 741 Origyptian 02-May-16 16:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 655 eli stills 03-May-16 00:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 707 Origyptian 03-May-16 21:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 697 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 21:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 641 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:02
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 749 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 22:13
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 784 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 813 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 715 Corpuscles 04-May-16 23:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Origyptian 05-May-16 02:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 743 eli stills 04-May-16 01:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:09
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 754 Thanos5150 02-May-16 20:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 711 Harte 02-May-16 21:41
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 782 Thanos5150 02-May-16 22:14
Re: It was not......they will not listen 760 Thunderbird 02-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 739 Harte 03-May-16 00:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 734 Thanos5150 03-May-16 00:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 717 Harte 03-May-16 22:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 708 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:05
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 778 Eddie Larry 04-May-16 01:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 711 Harte 05-May-16 22:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 512 Eddie Larry 05-May-16 22:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Harte 05-May-16 22:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 736 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 00:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 754 Harte 06-May-16 10:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 687 Origyptian 06-May-16 12:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 650 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 15:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 795 Harte 06-May-16 16:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 663 Aine 06-May-16 23:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 649 Thanos5150 06-May-16 23:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 762 Audrey 07-May-16 01:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 842 Harte 07-May-16 12:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 683 Audrey 07-May-16 17:55
Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 753 cladking 07-May-16 18:05
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 721 Audrey 07-May-16 18:40
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 763 cladking 07-May-16 18:57
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 713 Audrey 07-May-16 21:47
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 754 Origyptian 08-May-16 02:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 750 eyeofhorus33 08-May-16 05:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 634 Audrey 08-May-16 17:53
Enter Melchizedek 769 loveritas 02-May-16 05:31
Re: Enter Melchizedek 742 eli stills 02-May-16 15:44
Re: Enter Melchizedek 823 loveritas 02-May-16 21:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 687 Origyptian 02-May-16 03:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 OCaptain 04-May-16 23:16
Re:Plato 650 Thunderbird 09-May-16 01:24
An Allegory 613 loveritas 10-May-16 22:27
Re: An Allegory 729 Thanos5150 11-May-16 01:14
Re: An Allegory 647 Thunderbird 12-May-16 21:03
Re: An Allegory 582 loveritas 12-May-16 23:19
Re: An Allegory 627 Thunderbird 13-May-16 01:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 583 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 19:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 476 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-17 19:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 555 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 20:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 621 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-17 04:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 801 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 18:17


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