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I don't believe a literal interpretation is productive.

I am reminded of the joke in which the Christian fundamentalist is asked "What did the lions eat during those 40 days and nights?" and quickly answered with "the floating bodies of dead sinners". Just because one version of the story seems to precede another doesn't necessarily make that version any more accurate or interpretable.


"Mesopotamian land of 'Sumer'...accepted by scholars to be the first 'true' civilization dating to around 3,800BC."

Are those the same "scholars" who teach that the Egyptian pyramids were designed to be tombs?


"But even more likely, the Hebrew account of the Flood was derived long after Abraham from much later sources, like Babylon or Assyria, who had copied the earlier Sumerian tale themselves several hundred years before the first books of the Bible were ever written-before Abraham had even been born."

There is mention of the various flood narratives originating in and around the Mesopotamian region. But that doesn't account for the flood stories from civilizations on other continents around the world, including the claim that the earth was destroyed not once but on four separate occasions. For many investigators, our historic record largely focuses on artifacts that present a developed language in written form. But we have no reason to eliminate the distinct possibility that these "flood" narratives are based on one or more catastrophes that occurred much farther back in time, before the existence of a written language that could be embodied in a physical recording of such a narrative format. But that still leaves us with garbage-in-garbage-out.


"Curiously, the boat Utnapishtim is instructed to build by Ea is not a boat shaped craft, but rather a cube measuring 120 cubits square."

Not sure why this would be considered "curious", nor is it clear why a "Greek version of the Torah" is cited, since the original Hebrew doesn't describe a boat, but rather something far more akin to a storage container that includes no doors, windows, sails, or rudder.


"In essence what Utnapishtim has done, the best any of us could do in that situation, is take whatever animals he could get his hands on and not the “seed” of every living creature let alone “two of each”."

That may be the best one can do if one insists on taking such ancient legends literally. But why would anyone choose to take it literally when each version around the world contains such variation in the literal detail according to each of their story-telling cultures and when each version contains illogical details? A literal interpretation cannot reconcile the harsh differences between the Mesopotamian "chest", the Hebrew "storage container", the Latin "boat", the Hopi "reed-pods" (each containing a single person), the Inca "box" (containing only a single man and woman), etc.

The wide variations of the "flood" narrative around the world suggests a far more ancient origin than the physical imagery that is imposed by more recent cultures who tried to make sense of it in their written languages. I would contend that a literal interpretation is clearly not "the best any of us could do".

There are far too many contradictions and illogical statements among the various flood stories such that it is at least as likely that they have become too twisted with the passage of time and word-of-mouth transfer over many generations far before any written language could capture the ancient narrative.


"...should give no illusions whether or not the Biblical Flood Myth does in fact come from an earlier Mesopotamian original."

Depends on what is meant by "original". So far, it may be the oldest recorded version in written language. Whether it represents what actually happened is a huge stretch. There is no reason to assume that the first time something shows up in a written language is an indication of a more accurate description of what happened or the time it happened. After all, we are pretty sure that fire, clothing, weapons, and the wheel were discovered far earlier than when they are first described in written language.

To suggest that something didn't exist before it is first mentioned in an ancient artifact of written language that managed to survive until modern times strikes me as short-sighted and not necessarily reflective of the actual human history.

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How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-16 22:43 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 3334 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 02:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 964 Audrey 26-Apr-16 04:38
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 857 R Avry Wilson 26-Apr-16 07:00
The Tower 923 loveritas 26-Apr-16 11:32
Re: The Tower 761 Thunderbird 26-Apr-16 16:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 866 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 17:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 726 R Avry Wilson 27-Apr-16 01:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1015 Thanos5150 27-Apr-16 17:15
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 765 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 910 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 21:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 687 Origyptian 30-Apr-16 23:19
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 721 Aine 01-May-16 22:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 681 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 2094 Thanos5150 28-Apr-16 23:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 798 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 711 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 22:18
The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 456 dmatherly 02-Jan-17 23:46
Re: The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 498 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 05:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 828 Origyptian 26-Apr-16 15:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 764 Thunderbird 27-Apr-16 20:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 796 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 16:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 643 OCaptain 01-May-16 20:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 735 Corpuscles 01-May-16 22:25
A Rather Close Family 840 loveritas 01-May-16 23:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 741 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 645 Eddie Larry 01-May-16 23:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 693 eli stills 02-May-16 02:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 827 Thanos5150 02-May-16 03:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 699 eli stills 02-May-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 773 Harte 02-May-16 09:48
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 691 eli stills 02-May-16 15:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Origyptian 02-May-16 16:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 612 eli stills 03-May-16 00:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 654 Origyptian 03-May-16 21:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 647 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 21:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 594 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:02
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 651 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 22:13
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 639 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 763 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 671 Corpuscles 04-May-16 23:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 648 Origyptian 05-May-16 02:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 696 eli stills 04-May-16 01:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 646 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:09
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 705 Thanos5150 02-May-16 20:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 660 Harte 02-May-16 21:41
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 736 Thanos5150 02-May-16 22:14
Re: It was not......they will not listen 712 Thunderbird 02-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 693 Harte 03-May-16 00:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 693 Thanos5150 03-May-16 00:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 669 Harte 03-May-16 22:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 661 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:05
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 729 Eddie Larry 04-May-16 01:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 668 Harte 05-May-16 22:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 465 Eddie Larry 05-May-16 22:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 648 Harte 05-May-16 22:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 687 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 00:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 705 Harte 06-May-16 10:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 646 Origyptian 06-May-16 12:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 607 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 15:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 742 Harte 06-May-16 16:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 618 Aine 06-May-16 23:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 584 Thanos5150 06-May-16 23:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 719 Audrey 07-May-16 01:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 704 Harte 07-May-16 12:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 639 Audrey 07-May-16 17:55
Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 707 cladking 07-May-16 18:05
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 674 Audrey 07-May-16 18:40
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 720 cladking 07-May-16 18:57
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 666 Audrey 07-May-16 21:47
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 706 Origyptian 08-May-16 02:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 701 eyeofhorus33 08-May-16 05:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 587 Audrey 08-May-16 17:53
Enter Melchizedek 727 loveritas 02-May-16 05:31
Re: Enter Melchizedek 697 eli stills 02-May-16 15:44
Re: Enter Melchizedek 777 loveritas 02-May-16 21:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 637 Origyptian 02-May-16 03:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 699 OCaptain 04-May-16 23:16
Re:Plato 603 Thunderbird 09-May-16 01:24
An Allegory 569 loveritas 10-May-16 22:27
Re: An Allegory 682 Thanos5150 11-May-16 01:14
Re: An Allegory 597 Thunderbird 12-May-16 21:03
Re: An Allegory 537 loveritas 12-May-16 23:19
Re: An Allegory 578 Thunderbird 13-May-16 01:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 535 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 19:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 431 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-17 19:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 511 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 20:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 573 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-17 04:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 664 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 18:17


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