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I don't believe a literal interpretation is productive.

I am reminded of the joke in which the Christian fundamentalist is asked "What did the lions eat during those 40 days and nights?" and quickly answered with "the floating bodies of dead sinners". Just because one version of the story seems to precede another doesn't necessarily make that version any more accurate or interpretable.


"Mesopotamian land of 'Sumer'...accepted by scholars to be the first 'true' civilization dating to around 3,800BC."

Are those the same "scholars" who teach that the Egyptian pyramids were designed to be tombs?


"But even more likely, the Hebrew account of the Flood was derived long after Abraham from much later sources, like Babylon or Assyria, who had copied the earlier Sumerian tale themselves several hundred years before the first books of the Bible were ever written-before Abraham had even been born."

There is mention of the various flood narratives originating in and around the Mesopotamian region. But that doesn't account for the flood stories from civilizations on other continents around the world, including the claim that the earth was destroyed not once but on four separate occasions. For many investigators, our historic record largely focuses on artifacts that present a developed language in written form. But we have no reason to eliminate the distinct possibility that these "flood" narratives are based on one or more catastrophes that occurred much farther back in time, before the existence of a written language that could be embodied in a physical recording of such a narrative format. But that still leaves us with garbage-in-garbage-out.


"Curiously, the boat Utnapishtim is instructed to build by Ea is not a boat shaped craft, but rather a cube measuring 120 cubits square."

Not sure why this would be considered "curious", nor is it clear why a "Greek version of the Torah" is cited, since the original Hebrew doesn't describe a boat, but rather something far more akin to a storage container that includes no doors, windows, sails, or rudder.


"In essence what Utnapishtim has done, the best any of us could do in that situation, is take whatever animals he could get his hands on and not the “seed” of every living creature let alone “two of each”."

That may be the best one can do if one insists on taking such ancient legends literally. But why would anyone choose to take it literally when each version around the world contains such variation in the literal detail according to each of their story-telling cultures and when each version contains illogical details? A literal interpretation cannot reconcile the harsh differences between the Mesopotamian "chest", the Hebrew "storage container", the Latin "boat", the Hopi "reed-pods" (each containing a single person), the Inca "box" (containing only a single man and woman), etc.

The wide variations of the "flood" narrative around the world suggests a far more ancient origin than the physical imagery that is imposed by more recent cultures who tried to make sense of it in their written languages. I would contend that a literal interpretation is clearly not "the best any of us could do".

There are far too many contradictions and illogical statements among the various flood stories such that it is at least as likely that they have become too twisted with the passage of time and word-of-mouth transfer over many generations far before any written language could capture the ancient narrative.


"...should give no illusions whether or not the Biblical Flood Myth does in fact come from an earlier Mesopotamian original."

Depends on what is meant by "original". So far, it may be the oldest recorded version in written language. Whether it represents what actually happened is a huge stretch. There is no reason to assume that the first time something shows up in a written language is an indication of a more accurate description of what happened or the time it happened. After all, we are pretty sure that fire, clothing, weapons, and the wheel were discovered far earlier than when they are first described in written language.

To suggest that something didn't exist before it is first mentioned in an ancient artifact of written language that managed to survive until modern times strikes me as short-sighted and not necessarily reflective of the actual human history.

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How can any of us ever know, when all we can do is think?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 26-Apr-16 22:43 by Origyptian.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 3486 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 02:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1013 Audrey 26-Apr-16 04:38
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 907 R Avry Wilson 26-Apr-16 07:00
The Tower 973 loveritas 26-Apr-16 11:32
Re: The Tower 812 Thunderbird 26-Apr-16 16:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 916 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 17:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 778 R Avry Wilson 27-Apr-16 01:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1064 Thanos5150 27-Apr-16 17:15
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 813 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 1073 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 21:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 734 Origyptian 30-Apr-16 23:19
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 770 Aine 01-May-16 22:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 728 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 2198 Thanos5150 28-Apr-16 23:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 844 R Avry Wilson 30-Apr-16 03:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 761 Thanos5150 30-Apr-16 22:18
The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 502 dmatherly 02-Jan-17 23:46
Re: The Unanswered Mystery of 7,000-year-old Ubaid Lizard figurines 541 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 05:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 973 Origyptian 26-Apr-16 15:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 811 Thunderbird 27-Apr-16 20:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 843 Thanos5150 26-Apr-16 16:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 685 OCaptain 01-May-16 20:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 781 Corpuscles 01-May-16 22:25
A Rather Close Family 887 loveritas 01-May-16 23:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 792 Thanos5150 01-May-16 22:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 692 Eddie Larry 01-May-16 23:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 741 eli stills 02-May-16 02:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 870 Thanos5150 02-May-16 03:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 eli stills 02-May-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 824 Harte 02-May-16 09:48
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 738 eli stills 02-May-16 15:03
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 741 Origyptian 02-May-16 16:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 654 eli stills 03-May-16 00:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 706 Origyptian 03-May-16 21:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 696 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 21:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 641 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:02
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 749 Eddie Larry 03-May-16 22:13
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 784 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 813 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 714 Corpuscles 04-May-16 23:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 693 Origyptian 05-May-16 02:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 743 eli stills 04-May-16 01:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Origyptian 04-May-16 03:09
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 753 Thanos5150 02-May-16 20:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 711 Harte 02-May-16 21:41
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 782 Thanos5150 02-May-16 22:14
Re: It was not......they will not listen 759 Thunderbird 02-May-16 22:54
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 739 Harte 03-May-16 00:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 734 Thanos5150 03-May-16 00:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 717 Harte 03-May-16 22:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 708 Origyptian 03-May-16 22:05
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 777 Eddie Larry 04-May-16 01:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 711 Harte 05-May-16 22:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 512 Eddie Larry 05-May-16 22:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 694 Harte 05-May-16 22:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 735 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 00:57
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 754 Harte 06-May-16 10:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 687 Origyptian 06-May-16 12:36
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 650 Eddie Larry 06-May-16 15:26
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 795 Harte 06-May-16 16:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 662 Aine 06-May-16 23:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 648 Thanos5150 06-May-16 23:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 762 Audrey 07-May-16 01:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 842 Harte 07-May-16 12:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 683 Audrey 07-May-16 17:55
Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 753 cladking 07-May-16 18:05
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 720 Audrey 07-May-16 18:40
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 763 cladking 07-May-16 18:57
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 713 Audrey 07-May-16 21:47
Re: Standing on the Shoulders of Giants (who are descending into ruts) 753 Origyptian 08-May-16 02:44
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 749 eyeofhorus33 08-May-16 05:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 634 Audrey 08-May-16 17:53
Enter Melchizedek 769 loveritas 02-May-16 05:31
Re: Enter Melchizedek 742 eli stills 02-May-16 15:44
Re: Enter Melchizedek 823 loveritas 02-May-16 21:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 686 Origyptian 02-May-16 03:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 745 OCaptain 04-May-16 23:16
Re:Plato 650 Thunderbird 09-May-16 01:24
An Allegory 612 loveritas 10-May-16 22:27
Re: An Allegory 728 Thanos5150 11-May-16 01:14
Re: An Allegory 646 Thunderbird 12-May-16 21:03
Re: An Allegory 582 loveritas 12-May-16 23:19
Re: An Allegory 626 Thunderbird 13-May-16 01:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 582 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 19:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 475 Eddie Larry 02-Jan-17 19:39
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 555 Thanos5150 02-Jan-17 20:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 621 Eddie Larry 03-Jan-17 04:56
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Myth 800 Thanos5150 03-Jan-17 18:17


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