> No, like I said a regional one namely the greater
> Mediterranean i.e. the "known world" of Eurasia. I
> talk about most of it here which since I found
> found even more corroborating events:
> Evidence of a Global
From a global perspective I call the Mediterranean region 'local'. Evidence has been found of much much larger catastrophic events affecting that area long before 6000 bc. The 'Mediterranean event' is miniscule in comparison and is, I think, an attempt by a dying school of thought to keep up with the new evidence.
> I make the case these are not original tales but
> one disseminated from earlier sources. The more
> one goes back in time the more similar the tales
> get which I do not think is a coincidence.
But I see no similarity between Australia's myths and Gilgamesh, other than they both contain "water". Other than that, they are completely different and the Aborigines are known to be what, 70,000 yrs old? When you boil the tales down to what might be a core of truth, there really is no similarity in how the event happened and what the outcome was.
> The Greek account relates how Zeus, angered by the
> impiety of man, sent a Great Deluge to envelop the
> earth to destroy mankind. Deucalion and Pyhrrha,
> the first king and queen of Northern Greece, were
> warned by Prometheus, the creator of man, who
> instructed them to build a “chest” to survive
> the flood which they rode on top of to the safety
> of the dry peaks of Mount Parnassos.
Speaking of Prometheus, the titan who fought with Zeus against Kronos, Victor Clube sees it differently
My point being we must consider the events leading up to the flood in the different myths. The myths have their different vantage points and so differ in the preceding events, relaying what was seen from their region.Quote
The chance of a collision with Kronos, as with any other comet was, in fact, remote. And mankind settled into a Golden Age. But some time at perihelion, around 3,000 B.C., it is likely that Kronos ran very close to Venus and split, like Shoemaker-Levy, And a trail of new, dazzling comets circulated around the Taurid stream-evidently, for centuries. Somewhere in this array still was the Kronos remnant; less bright, perhaps. And a new leader, Zeus or Marduk, perhaps, much brighter, together with a new serpentine Milky Way, home of the chaos.
> In Hindu mythology, the gods created Manu, the
> first man, who is said to have been earth’s
> first king. One day Manu was washing his hands and
> saw a tiny fish. The fish begged him to put him
> into a larger vessel and in return the fish would
> help Manu survive a great flood that would destroy
> all living things. The fish grew so large that
> Manu was forced to throw him into the sea which in
> turn the fish told him to build a ship and take
> onboard two of each animal and the seeds of every
> plant. When the waters came, Manu tied his boat to
> the great fish who brought Manu and his entourage
> to the Himalaya Mountains where they waited out
> the deluge.
> The Aztec of South America tell how the “Ancient
> One” spared the lives of one man along with his
> wife and children from the great deluge by
> instructing them to find the largest cedar tree in
> the forest and make from it a canoe to ride out
> the storm.
> The Maio flood myth of China, one of many, holds
> that the god of thunder sent a flood to destroy
> the earth leaving a brother and sister to survive
> the deluge in a large gourd as their boat.
> A god(s) sparing the hero to survive the deluge in
> a floating craft. Chronologically these all point
> back to a Mesopotamian original which the closer
> they get the more true they are to the source.
But not all the myths involve a 'boat', and some have emphasis on other phenomenon such as hurricanes, waves that touch the sky and earth enveloped in fog.
> Sorry, but personally I put little stock in Native
> American flood myths in particular for several
> reasons. We can agree to disagree I am sure, but
> in general the idea of faithfully transmitting
> oral history over 10,000yrs seems highly
> implausible if not impossible. Imagine 10,000yrs
> of this:
Of course this is always the argument against the validity of the myths.
The first half of "Cosmic Winter" is a very interesting journey through history. Clube & Napier give an overall picture of the historical development of our current belief system - from a time in Mesopotamia when the skies were active with comets and meteors to the point of causing great fear, to the calmer skies in Grecian history until now. And why it was deemed necessary to take the threats of death out of the heavens and consign them to terrestrial causes. Even now scientists still have a hard time looking "beyond the rooftops".
"Indeed it appears that repeated cosmic stress - supernatural illuminations - have been deliberately programmed out of Christian theology and modern science, arguably the two most influential contributions of western civilization to the control and well-being of humanity."
In essence, cosmic impacts being just too scary to contemplate and terrestrial causes being the slow safe sure fire way of explaining mankind's existence assuring great titles of authority and research grants providing a comfortable living. Isn't that what it comes down to - the easiest route that will make one an expert, dominate in his field?
I might also point out that the Dead Sea Scrolls show remarkedly little difference from the Old Testament, 2000 yrs later, the difference being limited to a word or two. The Hebrews chalk this up to their reverence and commitment to keeping the truth in tact. Their scribes having always stuck to a strict code of copying texts exactly word for word.
> We have a plethora of stuff from these types of
> people spanning the 30,000 thousand years or so
> prior to 10,000BC but nothing except for stone
> from the lost civilization who supposedly made
I don't see a plethora of stuff. But what you see as evidence of the evolution of civilizations, I see as remnants of the survivors. BTW, I'm surprised wood would survive for so long, was that thing buried in an airtight container?
> If 40,000yrs isn't enough just keep going. Whether
> bones and/or tools we find evidence of humans
> consistently in the fossil record dating back as
> much now as 3.3 million years yet nothing from the
> global ALC? It's one thing to say this is
> because we have not looked everywhere, but don't
> you think it means something that everywhere we
> have looked we have found nothing despite the fact
> we have found a whole lot of other stuff? This
> doesn't mean "everything" but it certainly means
I'm not sure what you would expect to survive global impacts. Drumlins, tidal waves, hurricanes, tsunamis, what are the chances a building's foundation or silverware would survive. We may be looking at it in Puma Punku and if the LC was thousands of years ago their dishes, pots, windows, tools, clothing, books would have been obliterated unless one spoon happened to become encased in marine sediment like the Antikythera device, and then who would believe one spoon or geared mechanism was the remnant of a LC. It would take an entire preserved household of anomalous materials to convince the evolutionists who would otherwise attribute it to just another primitive culture.
> Nope. The evidence for c. 6,000BC and the chain of
> catastrophic events unleashed on the greater
> Mediterranean region were widespread and
> catastrophically substantial to all that lived
> there. No doubt it would have seemed like the gods
> had punished them. You said your self local events
> would not warrant remembering, well these (this)
> events no doubt would. This is not to discount
> previous catastrophes that led to end of the ice
> age, not what I am saying, but the question is
> which of these periods spawned the flood myths
> which I am putting my money on 6,000BC. In reality
> what we have are two periods of catastrophe one c.
> 10,000BC the other c. 6,000BC, both of which
> greatly affected the rise of civilization in their
> own way.
Some scientists are now arguing catastrophic events well before 6000 bc were THE force that shaped the development, or fall, of civilization. The sites are being set on 10,000 bc and beyond. Again quoting Clube
There is a paradigm shift involved in recognizing that it's not just ancient history we have got wrong-it's all history