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Martin Stower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Origyptian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Harte Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > What are these "catastrophic flaws" in the
> two
> > > separate C14 dating projects?
> >
> > The list goes on and on here (scroll to the
> list
> > at the end of this link):
> >
> [grahamhancock.com],
> 351368#msg-351368
>
> Recommended for fans of high pseudoscience:
> nitpicking taken to a whole new level.
>
> One of his “objections” is the usual ad hoc
> fiction in which the pyramid was actually such a
> rubbish construction that it needed massive
> repair work by one or more
> pharaohs—which, given that the samples were
> taken from between core blocks, presupposes that
> the pyramid (it’s always the pyramid, never mind
> that other buildings were sampled) was in an
> advanced state of delapidation and amounts to
> crediting the pharaohs with the entirety of
> the casing and some of the core as well. Yes,
> somehow these incompetents, denied the ability to
> build the pyramids, solved all of the very
> similar
problems encountered in repairing
> them.
>
> Another “objection” is that the investigators
> refrained from blasting great holes to get
> deeper samples—precisely the kind of destructive
> exploration for which pre-moderns such as Vyse are
> endlessly condemned.
>
> He seems to consider it an objection that the
> paper is a paper and not a textbook of standard
> procedure.
>
> Also tolerably clear is that “Doctor” Femano
> has not read the 1987 paper referenced in the
> introdoction. We may note this statement:
> “Oddly, the authors believe the fault was in the
> C-14 studies and not the historic chronology.”
> Either “Doctor” Femano has misunderstood
> authors’ scrupulously noncommittal comments
> (which says little for his comprehension of the
> remainder of the paper), or this is a flat-out
> lie.

Yes, it seems lost on the good doctor the dates were derived from multiple samples taken from numerous monuments though several Dynasties

Quoting myself from a discussion regarding the Old Wood Theory RE: the 1994 RCD study:
Quote

Taking these dates at "face value", I find several interesting things.

1) There is virtually no difference between the highest and lowest ranges of both 3rd and 4th Dynasty Pyramids, i.e. the pyramid age, from Sakkara to G3 with the upper dates offered on average around 2850BC.

2) The overwhelming majority of Giza Pyramid ranges (high) are in the (rounded down 4 years and up 5 years respectively) 2700-2900BC range. Of the 11 ranges for G1 only 3 are less than 2700BC. Of the 6 for G2 only one is less than 2700BC and four are 2800BC and above. G3, 5 out of 12 are below 2700BC and is the only Giza pyramid to have at least one range less than 2600BC though it is still as old or older than G1 is conventionally dated. Of the 29 ranges offered, 19 (66%) are in the 2700-2900 BC range.

3) If we take the average of the highest and lowest range dates to get an overall average this is what we are left with (decimal rounded):

Sakkara: 2792-2743 BC (historical range 2688-2649 BC)
Bent Pyramid: 2743-2696 BC (historical range 2688-2649 BC)
Pyramid at Meydum: 2722-2688 BC (historical range 2613-2589 BC)
G1: 2755-2722 BC (historical range 2589-2566 BC)
Abu Roash Pyramid: 2824-2783 BC (historical range 2588-2558 BC)
Abu Roash Pyramid Temple: 2806-2719 BC (historical range 2588-2558 BC) NOTE: This RC date is skewed lower by one anomalous range. Removed range is 2856-2749 BC
G2: 2793-2738 BC (historical range 2558-2532 BC)
G3: 2725-2695 BC (historical range 2532-2504 BC)

As we can see, all of the ranges, even the youngest, are all much older than the historical range and is uniform from site to site. And if we take out the oldest range and the youngest range they are even older.

So, according to carbon dating the new average dates would be as followed (decimals rounded):

Sakkara-2768 BC
Bent Pyramid-2720 BC
Meydum Pyramid-2705 BC
Abu Roash Pyramid-2804 BC
Abu Roash Temple-2795 BC
G1-2738 BC
G2-2765 BC
G3 2710 BC

Other dates of note are the Pyramid of Unas which with this formula dates to 2676 BC and if the two anomalous considerably younger dates are removed it dates to 2728 BC (historical range 2375-2345 BC). The ranges of the two younger dates combined average to 2495 BC.
When looking at the 5th and 6th Dynasty dates at a glance, a few are younger than the historical range, most are older and in the case of the Temple of Userkaf it dates to a whopping 3102 BC despite a historical date of 2498-2491 BC. Very interesting.

It would appear that except for a few earlier sites, the 12th Dynasty dates are the only ones that are as expected.

I would also note that the much older dates at Abu Roash are not surprising. There is precedent that dates it to the 1st Dynasty as well as it never having been a pyramid. It is interesting to me, however, that the date range for Abu Roash directly parallels the oldest dates found at the rest of the pyramids.

As we can see, the problem of older dates is not unique to G1 and is present almost without exception in all of the monuments dated prior to the 12th Dynasty. If old wood were responsible this same phenomenon would be found throughout Egyptian history arguably even more so in the 12th Dynasty than the 1st-6th, but actually the opposite is true. Also if this were the case given the accepted span of real time between the 1-6th Dynasties, not ALL of the samples would consistently date older. Surely over the span of over 200yrs of real time we would expect an amalgam of older and contemporary wood but it is just not there-its all older.
Old Wood

This is a very clear context for all regardless which side of the debate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15-Feb-16 18:24 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
age of the Sphinx 4897 Open mind 24-Nov-15 13:54
Re: age of the Sphinx 1235 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 18:34
Re: age of the Sphinx 1136 Pete Vanderzwet 25-Nov-15 00:08
Re: age of the Sphinx 1029 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:20
Re: age of the Sphinx 912 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 14:53
Re: age of the Sphinx 965 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:43
Re: age of the Sphinx 890 Origyptian 22-Dec-15 18:05
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 1120 laughin 19-Dec-15 15:34
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 870 Harte 24-Dec-15 01:01
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 797 Corpuscles 24-Dec-15 01:39
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 909 Harte 24-Dec-15 14:32
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 769 Origyptian 24-Dec-15 14:49
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 886 Audrey 25-Dec-15 23:39
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 802 Harte 26-Dec-15 00:21
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 702 Audrey 26-Dec-15 01:44
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 752 Origyptian 26-Dec-15 02:40
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 765 Origyptian 24-Dec-15 06:17
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 924 Harte 24-Dec-15 14:37
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 769 Origyptian 24-Dec-15 14:56
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 742 Harte 24-Dec-15 17:23
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 771 Origyptian 24-Dec-15 18:23
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 765 Harte 24-Dec-15 22:51
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 691 Origyptian 25-Dec-15 18:11
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 801 Harte 25-Dec-15 20:19
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 726 Origyptian 26-Dec-15 02:50
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 756 Harte 26-Dec-15 21:45
Re: age of the Sphinx ?. how about 800,000 years 709 Ulrich 23-Jan-16 18:02
Re: age of the Sphinx 878 Mdsign 29-Dec-15 12:01
Re: age of the Sphinx 811 SandyJesse 06-Jan-16 00:59
Re: age of the Sphinx 924 Harte 09-Jan-16 20:43
Re: age of the Sphinx 819 Mdsign 11-Jan-16 10:19
Re: age of the Sphinx 862 SandyJesse 12-Jan-16 23:49
Re: age of the Sphinx 786 Merrell 11-Jan-16 12:07
Re: age of the Sphinx 600 Harte 23-Jan-16 17:19
Re: age of the Sphinx 689 Mdsign 24-Jan-16 16:18
Re: age of the Sphinx 703 Harte 24-Jan-16 22:36
Re: age of the Sphinx 725 Mdsign 25-Jan-16 10:33
Re: age of the Sphinx 615 Origyptian 25-Jan-16 13:45
it is a dog 736 Juha 25-Jan-16 14:50
Re: it is a dog 855 Thanos5150 25-Jan-16 16:37
Re: it is a dog 747 Harte 26-Jan-16 02:14
Re: it is a dog 687 Thanos5150 26-Jan-16 02:35
its leo everywhere 706 Mdsign 26-Jan-16 10:20
Assyrian sphinx is bull 973 Juha 26-Jan-16 12:56
Re: Assyrian sphinx is bull 764 Mdsign 26-Jan-16 13:01
Re: Assyrian sphinx is bull 602 Origyptian 26-Jan-16 14:29
Re: it is a dog 826 Harte 26-Jan-16 11:01
Re: it is a dog 653 Jon Ellison 26-Jan-16 12:18
Re: it is a dog 643 Origyptian 26-Jan-16 14:41
Re: it is a dog 725 Jon Ellison 26-Jan-16 17:10
Re: it is a dog 693 Thanos5150 26-Jan-16 23:31
Re: it is a dog 750 Harte 27-Jan-16 01:08
Re: it is a dog 862 Thanos5150 27-Jan-16 05:49
Re: it is a dog 702 Harte 27-Jan-16 11:12
Re: it is a dog 525 Thanos5150 27-Jan-16 18:21
Re: it is a dog 592 DUNE 27-Jan-16 18:32
Dogleg 753 Dr. Troglodyte 27-Jan-16 19:07
Re: Dogleg 815 Thanos5150 28-Jan-16 00:26
Re: it is a dog 644 Origyptian 27-Jan-16 14:24
Re: it is a dog 640 Jon Ellison 27-Jan-16 11:06
Re: it is a dog 644 Harte 27-Jan-16 11:17
Re: it is a dog 541 Jon Ellison 27-Jan-16 11:22
Re: it is a dog 731 Audrey 27-Jan-16 04:42
Re: it is a dog 624 Thanos5150 27-Jan-16 04:53
Re: it is a dog 594 Audrey 27-Jan-16 06:20
Re: it is a dog 642 Thanos5150 27-Jan-16 19:15
Re: it is a dog 888 Audrey 28-Jan-16 01:55
Re: it is a dog 771 Thanos5150 28-Jan-16 20:24
Re: it is a dog 955 Audrey 29-Jan-16 03:14
Re: it is a dog 581 Juha 29-Jan-16 08:23
Re: it is a dog 560 Mdsign 29-Jan-16 09:30
Re: it is a dog 631 Juha 29-Jan-16 11:01
Re: it is a dog 676 Mdsign 29-Jan-16 11:57
Re: it is a dog 639 Origyptian 29-Jan-16 13:30
Age of Pyramids 646 Juha 29-Jan-16 17:07
Re: Age of Pyramids 536 Origyptian 29-Jan-16 17:42
Re: Age of Pyramids 593 Juha 29-Jan-16 18:29
Re: Age of Pyramids 595 Jon Ellison 29-Jan-16 18:35
Re: Age of Pyramids 508 Juha 29-Jan-16 21:19
Re: Age of Pyramids 616 Jon Ellison 29-Jan-16 21:50
Re: Age of Pyramids 696 Audrey 30-Jan-16 06:46
Re: Age of Pyramids 601 brett z 30-Jan-16 13:14
Re: Age of Pyramids 649 Jon Ellison 30-Jan-16 17:58
Straight lines 613 randompHactor 30-Jan-16 18:15
Re: Age of Pyramids 603 Origyptian 29-Jan-16 18:49
Re: Age of Pyramids 650 Juha 29-Jan-16 21:43
Re: it is a dog 545 Audrey 29-Jan-16 17:58
Re: it is a dog 684 Juha 29-Jan-16 22:39
Re: it is a dog 888 Thanos5150 29-Jan-16 22:37
Re: it is a dog 589 Audrey 30-Jan-16 06:21
Re: it is a dog 650 Thanos5150 30-Jan-16 06:56
Re: it is a dog 494 Audrey 30-Jan-16 07:15
Re: it is a dog 634 Origyptian 30-Jan-16 07:30
Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 734 Thanos5150 30-Jan-16 21:35
Re: it is a dog 775 cladking 30-Jan-16 21:52
Re: it is a dog 774 Thanos5150 31-Jan-16 02:15
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 2148 Thanos5150 14-Feb-16 21:54
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 724 DUNE 14-Feb-16 23:45
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 684 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 00:12
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 723 Audrey 15-Feb-16 03:17
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 711 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 03:51
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 642 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 00:54
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 795 Thunderbird 15-Feb-16 03:02
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 768 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 06:54
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 676 DUNE 15-Feb-16 10:38
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 599 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 11:41
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 618 Jon Ellison 15-Feb-16 13:46
Re: Granite ....to protect against high water 603 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 16:09
Re: Nile and harbor management 715 Thunderbird 15-Feb-16 16:31
Re:Ancient Nile elevations 684 Thunderbird 15-Feb-16 22:59
Re: Was the Sphinx Originally an Animal? 933 Thanos5150 16-Feb-16 23:41
Re: it is a dog 638 Mdsign 29-Jan-16 10:03
Re: Dumuzi....Osiris 839 Thunderbird 26-Jan-16 03:45
Re: Dumuzi....Osiris 1031 Thanos5150 26-Jan-16 04:41
Re: The Akhet (Inundation) and ANPU 697 Thunderbird 26-Jan-16 15:05
Re: Dumuzi....Osiris 687 Mdsign 27-Jan-16 09:57
Re: age of the Sphinx 868 Audrey 26-Jan-16 05:21
back to the time period question 753 Mdsign 27-Jan-16 13:12
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 755 DUNE 27-Jan-16 12:01
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 646 Spiros 27-Jan-16 13:11
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 685 Spiros 27-Jan-16 13:53
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 709 cladking 27-Jan-16 15:42
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 562 Jon Ellison 27-Jan-16 18:35
Re: Why are the Causeways where they are, 539 cladking 27-Jan-16 20:37
Re: age of the Sphinx 628 Harte 29-Jan-16 19:24
Re: age of the Sphinx 571 randompHactor 29-Jan-16 19:32
Re: age of the Sphinx 586 Origyptian 29-Jan-16 19:39
Re: age of the Sphinx 860 Martin Stower 15-Feb-16 17:52
Re: age of the Sphinx 638 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 18:18
Re: age of the Sphinx 694 Martin Stower 19-Feb-16 17:53
Re: age of the Sphinx 569 Origyptian 19-Feb-16 18:00
Re: age of the Sphinx 860 Martin Stower 19-Feb-16 20:23
Re: age of the Sphinx 633 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 18:22
Re: age of the Sphinx 625 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 18:36
Re: age of the Sphinx 681 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 19:21
Re: age of the Sphinx 584 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 19:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 655 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 21:27
Re: age of the Sphinx 668 Martin Stower 15-Feb-16 22:00
Re: age of the Sphinx 629 Thanos5150 15-Feb-16 22:34
Re: age of the Sphinx 610 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 23:09
Re: age of the Sphinx 579 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 19:45
Re: age of the Sphinx 791 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 20:07
Re: age of the Sphinx 557 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 22:03
Re: age of the Sphinx 613 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 23:33
Re: age of the Sphinx 736 Audrey 16-Feb-16 23:44
Re: age of the Sphinx 675 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 14:40
Re: age of the Sphinx 610 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 15:18
Re: age of the Sphinx 675 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 15:31
Re: age of the Sphinx 692 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 15:58
Re: age of the Sphinx 575 Audrey 16-Feb-16 23:37
Re: age of the Sphinx 659 Harte 17-Feb-16 11:24
Re: age of the Sphinx 639 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 15:13
Re: age of the Sphinx 596 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 15:39
Re: age of the Sphinx 577 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 15:54
Re: age of the Sphinx 609 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 16:40
Re: age of the Sphinx 635 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 16:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 571 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 17:08
Re: age of the Sphinx 601 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 23:00
Re: age of the Sphinx 599 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 23:58
Re: age of the Sphinx 491 Martin Stower 18-Feb-16 00:10
Re: age of the Sphinx 664 Origyptian 18-Feb-16 00:15
Re: age of the Sphinx 567 Martin Stower 18-Feb-16 01:07
Re: age of the Sphinx 700 Harte 17-Feb-16 23:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 606 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 15:50
Re: age of the Sphinx 631 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 14:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 586 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 15:47
Re: age of the Sphinx 540 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 16:42
Re: age of the Sphinx 501 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 16:49
Re: age of the Sphinx 704 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 17:03
Re: age of the Sphinx 605 Origyptian 17-Feb-16 17:10
Re: age of the Sphinx 589 Martin Stower 17-Feb-16 23:40
Re: age of the Sphinx 512 Origyptian 18-Feb-16 00:03
Re: age of the Sphinx 640 Martin Stower 18-Feb-16 00:22
Re: age of the Sphinx 600 Harte 17-Feb-16 23:59
Re: age of the Sphinx 586 Martin Stower 18-Feb-16 01:14
Re: age of the Sphinx 547 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 22:51
Re: age of the Sphinx 584 Audrey 15-Feb-16 23:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 537 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 00:25
Re: age of the Sphinx 529 Audrey 16-Feb-16 01:40
Re: age of the Sphinx 603 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 02:50
Re: age of the Sphinx 584 Audrey 16-Feb-16 03:05
Re: age of the Sphinx 585 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 15:06
Re: age of the Sphinx 659 Thanos5150 16-Feb-16 00:20
Re: age of the Sphinx 562 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 00:37
Re: age of the Sphinx 618 Thanos5150 16-Feb-16 00:44
Re: age of the Sphinx 587 Audrey 16-Feb-16 01:33
Re: age of the Sphinx 594 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 02:41
Re: age of the Sphinx 687 Audrey 16-Feb-16 02:52
Re: age of the Sphinx 576 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 03:03
Re: age of the Sphinx 671 Audrey 16-Feb-16 03:08
Re: age of the Sphinx 642 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 03:18
Re: age of the Sphinx 787 Audrey 16-Feb-16 03:36
Re: age of the Sphinx 662 Jon Ellison 16-Feb-16 04:23
Re: age of the Sphinx 703 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 14:28
Re: age of the Sphinx 662 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 14:41
Re: age of the Sphinx 642 Audrey 16-Feb-16 01:30
Re: age of the Sphinx 507 Origyptian 16-Feb-16 02:40
Re: age of the Sphinx 654 Martin Stower 15-Feb-16 21:41
Re: age of the Sphinx 610 Origyptian 15-Feb-16 23:06
Re: age of the Sphinx 746 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 00:03
Re: age of the Sphinx 712 cladking 16-Feb-16 03:30
Re: age of the Sphinx 700 Martin Stower 16-Feb-16 14:48
Re: age of the Sphinx 698 cladking 16-Feb-16 19:55
Re: age of the Sphinx 705 Martin Stower 15-Feb-16 16:28
Re: age of the Sphinx 721 Brian Patterson 29-Jan-16 20:08


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