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cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]

> The masons of that time usually made mastaba sides
> and other steep walls at 70 to 72 degrees for
> stability. I'm merely assuming the five 81' 3"
> steps of G1 which show up on the gravimtric scan
> are similar. If they could make them steeper they
> would have but the steeper they are the more
> fragile they are.

So, you’re assuming that the task was one of building a step pyramid—and that building a step pyramid was the entirety of the task, with nothing else needing explaining.

Would you now like to explain how the topmost stones of a true pyramid were raised, within the constraints of your “no ramps allowed” stipulation?

How the stones converting the posited stepped core into a true pyramid were raised?

> > If they were dragging things up a slope anyway,
> > then reducing that slope would be a natural
> > step to take.
>
> No. Not necessarily.
>
> Indeed, the shallower the slope the more
> inefficient it is because total friction
> increases. It is zero total friction at 90
> degrees and it is infinite at 0 degrees. It is
> very high at 8 degrees and extremely low at 70
> degrees.

And again, reducing friction to a minimum is not necessarily an overriding consideration, if the low-friction or no-friction solution is infeasible. There are the larger stones (roofing blocks, including the granite ones) to explain—and, again, all of the ones which are not part of the posited stepped core.

> If they had a perfect 70 degree side on the step
> that required no effort to build then why expend
> effort to make it less efficient? Ever consider a
> job in Congress?

Congress is not in my country.

> > You were there? I see nothing less which would
> > justify so plonking an assertion.
>
> Ramps are debunked and this can't be changed with
> semantics. [. . .]

> Again, semantics are irrelevant. [. . .]

> > And without semantics, your words amount to . . . ?
>
> I'm asking you to look beyond the words to the
> meaning, [. . .]

So much for coherence again.

> > Yeah, common sense, right.
>
> Common sense insists they used the simplest, least
> complicated, and most efficient means to lift
> stones as evidenced by the largest public works
> project in human history. This means ramps are
> illogical and fly in the face of common sense.

No, common sense insists that they did what was doable.

> > Seems to me that you’re doing what you
> > constantly accuse others of doing: treating the
> > ancient Egyptians as bumpkins, who did things
> > which make no sense.
>
> ?

It remains unclear to me (for one) that your proposal is other than impractical and impracticable.

> > What fools people are to make use of it,
> > then—and yet somehow they do, to make things
> > doable. Total amount of work is not always an
> > overriding consideration.
>
> When you get a new engine put in your car the cost
> of lifting it up is incidental.
>
> Lifting isn't incidental when you're using
> primitive technology in a primitive economy to
> lift 6 1/2 million tons to an average of 150'.

If proposing that stones were raised by essentially a straight lift, perhaps you would like to explain how they were secured, without any sign of lewises being used—and what was used to stop them scraping that nice, dressed Tura.

Also, it might help if you worked through your ideas (covering inter alia the points mentioned above) and presented them pictorially.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Removable plugs on purpose 2683 Open mind 21-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 816 cladking 21-Nov-15 17:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 753 Open mind 21-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 635 cladking 21-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 852 Open mind 21-Nov-15 19:44
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 716 cladking 21-Nov-15 19:52
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 797 Open mind 21-Nov-15 20:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 663 cladking 21-Nov-15 21:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 742 Open mind 21-Nov-15 23:26
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 741 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 00:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 825 Corpuscles 22-Nov-15 11:32
Pragmatic Semantics 874 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 654 Open mind 22-Nov-15 17:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 680 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 743 Open mind 23-Nov-15 21:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 653 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 21:32
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 664 Open mind 23-Nov-15 22:27
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 691 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 601 cladking 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 681 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 639 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 773 Open mind 24-Nov-15 19:06
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 709 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 763 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 543 cladking 24-Nov-15 20:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 686 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:31
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 589 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 702 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 681 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:49
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 636 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:02
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 642 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 649 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 20:51
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 656 cladking 22-Nov-15 20:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 694 Origyptian 22-Nov-15 16:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 692 Open mind 22-Nov-15 18:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 747 Open mind 22-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 666 cladking 22-Nov-15 21:08
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 649 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 18:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 564 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 626 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 20:59
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 711 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:35
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 639 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 641 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 601 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 612 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:55
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 602 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 615 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 735 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 644 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-15 18:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 694 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 671 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 636 cladking 25-Nov-15 00:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 763 Martin Stower 27-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 541 cladking 28-Nov-15 00:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 00:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 604 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 697 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 02:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 605 cladking 28-Nov-15 02:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 788 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 13:40
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 634 cladking 28-Nov-15 15:16
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 731 Brian Patterson 28-Nov-15 15:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 598 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 20:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 620 Merrell 28-Nov-15 21:39
According to Archae... 612 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:09
Re: According to Archae... 610 Merrell 28-Nov-15 22:54
Re: According to Archae... 623 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:58
Re: According to Archae... 643 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:11
Mindset 660 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 23:36
Re: Mindset 653 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:49
Re: Mindset 637 Merrell 29-Nov-15 10:17
Re: Mindset 788 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Mindset 664 Merrell 29-Nov-15 22:49
Re: Mindset 492 cladking 29-Nov-15 23:03
Re: Mindset 662 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:47
Re: Mindset 587 cladking 30-Nov-15 05:07
Re: Mindset 615 Martin Stower 29-Nov-15 23:31
Re: Mindset 681 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 23:46
Re: According to Archae... 694 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 584 cladking 28-Nov-15 23:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 486 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:21
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 648 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 743 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 23:19
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 cladking 24-Nov-15 23:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 Martin Stower 25-Nov-15 00:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 758 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 00:42
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 687 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 01:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 665 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:05
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 627 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 07:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 656 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 522 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:37
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 710 Open mind 25-Nov-15 03:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 746 Origyptian 25-Nov-15 03:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 731 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 16:25
Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 721 Howard West 29-Nov-15 16:48
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 684 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:57
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 552 Howard West 30-Nov-15 16:07
Old Posters seem to act like the Caliph Omar 666 Howard West 30-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 619 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 17:17
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 590 Howard West 30-Nov-15 18:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 571 cladking 30-Nov-15 21:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 607 Origyptian 01-Dec-15 04:56
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 695 Brian Patterson 01-Dec-15 17:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 637 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 21:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 614 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 22:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Howard West 30-Nov-15 23:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 609 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 23:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 662 Howard West 01-Dec-15 02:34
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 736 Howard West 01-Dec-15 22:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 712 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 00:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 609 Brian Patterson 02-Dec-15 00:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 703 Howard West 02-Dec-15 03:46
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 642 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 21:04
some people just need lots of pictures 928 Howard West 03-Dec-15 02:12


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