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cladking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

[. . .]

> The masons of that time usually made mastaba sides
> and other steep walls at 70 to 72 degrees for
> stability. I'm merely assuming the five 81' 3"
> steps of G1 which show up on the gravimtric scan
> are similar. If they could make them steeper they
> would have but the steeper they are the more
> fragile they are.

So, you’re assuming that the task was one of building a step pyramid—and that building a step pyramid was the entirety of the task, with nothing else needing explaining.

Would you now like to explain how the topmost stones of a true pyramid were raised, within the constraints of your “no ramps allowed” stipulation?

How the stones converting the posited stepped core into a true pyramid were raised?

> > If they were dragging things up a slope anyway,
> > then reducing that slope would be a natural
> > step to take.
>
> No. Not necessarily.
>
> Indeed, the shallower the slope the more
> inefficient it is because total friction
> increases. It is zero total friction at 90
> degrees and it is infinite at 0 degrees. It is
> very high at 8 degrees and extremely low at 70
> degrees.

And again, reducing friction to a minimum is not necessarily an overriding consideration, if the low-friction or no-friction solution is infeasible. There are the larger stones (roofing blocks, including the granite ones) to explain—and, again, all of the ones which are not part of the posited stepped core.

> If they had a perfect 70 degree side on the step
> that required no effort to build then why expend
> effort to make it less efficient? Ever consider a
> job in Congress?

Congress is not in my country.

> > You were there? I see nothing less which would
> > justify so plonking an assertion.
>
> Ramps are debunked and this can't be changed with
> semantics. [. . .]

> Again, semantics are irrelevant. [. . .]

> > And without semantics, your words amount to . . . ?
>
> I'm asking you to look beyond the words to the
> meaning, [. . .]

So much for coherence again.

> > Yeah, common sense, right.
>
> Common sense insists they used the simplest, least
> complicated, and most efficient means to lift
> stones as evidenced by the largest public works
> project in human history. This means ramps are
> illogical and fly in the face of common sense.

No, common sense insists that they did what was doable.

> > Seems to me that you’re doing what you
> > constantly accuse others of doing: treating the
> > ancient Egyptians as bumpkins, who did things
> > which make no sense.
>
> ?

It remains unclear to me (for one) that your proposal is other than impractical and impracticable.

> > What fools people are to make use of it,
> > then—and yet somehow they do, to make things
> > doable. Total amount of work is not always an
> > overriding consideration.
>
> When you get a new engine put in your car the cost
> of lifting it up is incidental.
>
> Lifting isn't incidental when you're using
> primitive technology in a primitive economy to
> lift 6 1/2 million tons to an average of 150'.

If proposing that stones were raised by essentially a straight lift, perhaps you would like to explain how they were secured, without any sign of lewises being used—and what was used to stop them scraping that nice, dressed Tura.

Also, it might help if you worked through your ideas (covering inter alia the points mentioned above) and presented them pictorially.

M.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Removable plugs on purpose 2764 Open mind 21-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 864 cladking 21-Nov-15 17:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 817 Open mind 21-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 689 cladking 21-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 918 Open mind 21-Nov-15 19:44
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 802 cladking 21-Nov-15 19:52
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 858 Open mind 21-Nov-15 20:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 713 cladking 21-Nov-15 21:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 815 Open mind 21-Nov-15 23:26
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 789 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 00:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 873 Corpuscles 22-Nov-15 11:32
Pragmatic Semantics 928 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 723 Open mind 22-Nov-15 17:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 728 Dr. Troglodyte 22-Nov-15 18:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 807 Open mind 23-Nov-15 21:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 698 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 21:32
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 725 Open mind 23-Nov-15 22:27
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 780 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 654 cladking 23-Nov-15 22:39
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 728 Origyptian 23-Nov-15 22:53
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 683 Dr. Troglodyte 24-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 846 Open mind 24-Nov-15 19:06
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 760 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 819 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:30
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 592 cladking 24-Nov-15 20:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 731 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:31
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 633 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:33
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 753 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 746 Open mind 24-Nov-15 20:49
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 689 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:02
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 705 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 700 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 20:51
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 700 cladking 22-Nov-15 20:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 759 Origyptian 22-Nov-15 16:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 761 Open mind 22-Nov-15 18:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 809 Open mind 22-Nov-15 20:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 713 cladking 22-Nov-15 21:08
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 731 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 18:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 615 cladking 24-Nov-15 19:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 20:59
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 772 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:35
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 686 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:38
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 738 Open mind 24-Nov-15 21:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 688 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 651 Jon Ellison 24-Nov-15 21:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 662 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 21:55
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 648 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 666 cladking 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 785 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 690 Jon Ellison 27-Nov-15 18:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 743 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:22
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 723 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 22:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 693 cladking 25-Nov-15 00:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 814 Martin Stower 27-Nov-15 16:25
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 596 cladking 28-Nov-15 00:04
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 724 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 00:43
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 655 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 745 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 02:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 654 cladking 28-Nov-15 02:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 849 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 13:40
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 682 cladking 28-Nov-15 15:16
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 779 Brian Patterson 28-Nov-15 15:45
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 648 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 20:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 663 Merrell 28-Nov-15 21:39
According to Archae... 672 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:09
Re: According to Archae... 682 Merrell 28-Nov-15 22:54
Re: According to Archae... 670 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 22:58
Re: According to Archae... 690 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:11
Mindset 704 Ratcho 28-Nov-15 23:36
Re: Mindset 705 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:49
Re: Mindset 683 Merrell 29-Nov-15 10:17
Re: Mindset 875 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 18:33
Re: Mindset 713 Merrell 29-Nov-15 22:49
Re: Mindset 542 cladking 29-Nov-15 23:03
Re: Mindset 708 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:47
Re: Mindset 637 cladking 30-Nov-15 05:07
Re: Mindset 668 Martin Stower 29-Nov-15 23:31
Re: Mindset 735 Thanos5150 29-Nov-15 23:46
Re: According to Archae... 747 Martin Stower 28-Nov-15 23:28
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 635 cladking 28-Nov-15 23:13
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 534 cladking 28-Nov-15 01:21
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 699 Brian Patterson 24-Nov-15 22:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 796 Origyptian 24-Nov-15 23:19
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 698 cladking 24-Nov-15 23:57
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 687 Martin Stower 25-Nov-15 00:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 806 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 00:42
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 753 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 01:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 728 Open mind 25-Nov-15 04:05
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 675 Jon Ellison 25-Nov-15 07:03
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 718 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:18
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 596 Open mind 25-Nov-15 13:37
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 765 Open mind 25-Nov-15 03:47
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 798 Origyptian 25-Nov-15 03:58
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 790 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Nov-15 16:25
Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 776 Howard West 29-Nov-15 16:48
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 735 Origyptian 30-Nov-15 04:57
Re: Why the Plugs were covered by dirt 602 Howard West 30-Nov-15 16:07
Old Posters seem to act like the Caliph Omar 753 Howard West 30-Nov-15 17:11
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 679 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 17:17
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 727 Howard West 30-Nov-15 18:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 622 cladking 30-Nov-15 21:07
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 680 Origyptian 01-Dec-15 04:56
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 748 Brian Patterson 01-Dec-15 17:10
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 684 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 21:54
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 666 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 22:14
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 733 Howard West 30-Nov-15 23:01
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 659 Brian Patterson 30-Nov-15 23:15
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 717 Howard West 01-Dec-15 02:34
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 788 Howard West 01-Dec-15 22:36
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 764 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 00:48
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 654 Brian Patterson 02-Dec-15 00:29
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 759 Howard West 02-Dec-15 03:46
Re: Removable plugs on purpose 691 Dr. Troglodyte 02-Dec-15 21:04
some people just need lots of pictures 995 Howard West 03-Dec-15 02:12


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