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Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi James.
>
> jamesglory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. talk about a thought provoking journey the
> > Serkeh Building fascination of yours is and is
> > becoming as time goes on.
> > Thank you.
>
> Yeah, it has definitely become a journey. When I
> went to Egypt, almost 20yrs ago now, I was
> fascinated by the architecture of Saqqara. It
> seemed more Mesopotamian than Egyptian to me and I
> have been following this path ever since. Not as
> dumb as I look apparently.
>
> > VERY interested to know a bit more about your
> > statement earlier in the thread: 'Djedefre and
> > what he found at Abu Roash.'
> > If you have time &/are so inclined to flesh it
> out
> > a little Lee that would be ace.
> > -be gentle though, you know I'm not the most
> shiny
> > penny in the purse! :)
>
> Lol. No worries James. Thanks for asking.
>
> Abu Roash has a substantial history, none more so
> perhaps than the early Dynastic Period, namely the
> 1st Dynasty. It is in the middle of nowhere and
> yet it was important to the DE long before
> Djedefre came and ultimately why I think he went
> there. There is a reason he forsake Giza for Abu
> Roash made even more puzzling by the fact he
> obviously had an amicable relationship with his
> father, Khufu, yet still choose to build
> (refurbish as the case may be) far away at Abu
> Roash. Just as much as there is no reason he would
> not build at Giza, there must have been a reason
> he went to Abu Roash which I believe was the
> history there. I am of the opinion Abu Roash was
> never meant to be a pyramid and like Zawyet El
> Aryan was something else, perhaps an observatory
> of sorts, in which both are older than they are
> ascribed, something I note appears to be
> corroborated (at Abu Roash at least) by RCD.
>
> As I have noted here:
> [url=http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,11
> 65804]G1 and the Boat Pits of Djedefre[/url], and
> elsewhere, Djedefre was responsible for the boat
> burial revival, something that had been abandoned
> since at least the 2nd Dynasty if not the 1st. He
> is also the 1st pharaoh to incorporate sun god
> RA/RE into his name, Djedef[b]re[/b], a meaningful
> shift in ideology. As I said, very early in my
> research so I could be wrong, but from what I have
> seen so far, which is kind of a lot, it also
> appears to me the OK fascination with the palace
> facade building came to bloom in or around his
> reign which at the very least I would say it seems
> clear this happened sometime in the middle of the
> 4th Dynasty regardless. All things considered,
> Dejedfre was an odd fellow who obviously followed
> an unconventional path which I believe was at
> least in part because of a fascination with, and
> perhaps new interpretation of, the past.
>
> I believe it was what he found at Abu Roash from
> the early Dynastic Period that drew him
> there-important enough to forsake his rightful
> burial place at Giza. There is a large 1st Dynasty
> necropolis at Abu Roash including as I have just
> verified
> now-[url=https://www.academia.edu/7772448/Tristant
> _and_Smythe_2011_-_Tristant_Y._Smythe_J._New_excav
> ations_for_an_old_cemetery._Preliminary_results_of
> _the_Abu_Rawash_project_on_the_M_Cemetery_1st_Dyna
> sty_in_Friedman_R.F._and_Fiske_P.N._eds_Egypt_at_i
> ts_Origins_3._OLA_205_Leuven_2011_p._313-322]palac
> e facade mastabas (yayyy me).[/url], as well as
> boat burials (there are others, but a few more
> were recently discovered:
> [url=https://www.archaeology.org/issues/61-1301/fe
> atures/top-10/274-top-10-2012-abu-rawash-funerary-
> boat]HERE[/url]). 1st Dynasty artifacts were also
> found near the "pyramid" itself which gives
> further credence to the idea at least in some form
> it is older than attributed.
>
> From the link above regarding the palace facade
> mastabas:
>
> [quote]The Early Dynastic tombs discovered at the
> M Cemetery are elite mas-taba tombs with mud-brick
> superstructures, their façades decorated with
> recessed niches (see Tristant 2008a). They are
> massive structures comparable to fortified walls.
> Possibly the largest and best-preserved Dynasty 1
> mastaba on the plateau, M07, was nearly 30 m long
> and20 m wide. When Montet excavated it, the walls
> were partially preserved to nearly 1 m in height
> (Fig. 4). Niching on the mastabas is similar to
> that of the earliest serekh panels or stylised
> representations of the palace façade. The
> mud-brick walls were plastered with mud and
> decorated with coloured paintings. The
> substructures of the tombs were cut into the rock
> (Fig. 5) and consist of an open pit and side
> chambers.[/quote]
>
> [img]https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/60f9n57v403y
> kbjm/images/13-426a9e4ca2.jpg[/img]
>
> [quote]Abu Rawash is clearly an important site. If
> we consider it within the context of the Memphite
> area during the first half of Dynasty 1, the
> people buried at the M Cemetery appear to have
> belonged to the highest class of society. The
> closest comparable site is North Saqqara, which
> contained tombs belonging to the very highest rank
> of people, possibly members of the royal family.
> In design and arrangement, the palace façade
> mastabas of Abu Rawash generally follow the better
> documented examples excavated at Saqqara, although
> some features give the impression of a less
> elevated status for those buried at Abu
> Rawash.[/quote]
>
> Seek and ye shall find James.
>
> Thank you again for asking the question.

Gosh thanks Lee. Ace answer!

I really enjoyed reading about the various discoveries by Montet & was interested to read;
'The presence of Old Kingdom tombs between the Early Dynastic mastabas shows that the cemetery was reused at least during Dynasty 4.'
clearly there was a lot going on.

Also a good and telling quote which I think hopefully bodes well for your studies;
'In short, the cemetery site of Abu Rawash has not been fully investigated, it has been ignored in modern publications, and for all intents and purposes it has been forgotten. This is an unacceptable situation when we consider the archaeological potential of the site'
-Hopefully this will be remedied and much more will be brought to light?

Again:
'..........the Abu Rawash plateau is still generally unknown. '

And look at all the various ceramics and knick-knacks and what have you, that have been found there too!

The Map of the Memphite region with the main Predynastic and Early Dynastic sites (from Jones 1996: 252, fig. 1). In the T &S 2011 makes one realize how they were all laid out and how connected they will have been. Fascinating.
The topography shows ideal for observatories too. Which follows your thoughts.

thanks again Lee for taking time to answer in this substantual manner.
I shall try keep track and if I can think of anything, or more likely ask something, I shall do so.

Keep digging!
Respect & blessings always.
James

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 8506 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1140 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1296 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1180 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1350 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1259 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1308 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 1044 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1055 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1118 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1126 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1210 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 888 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 990 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1061 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1069 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1063 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 952 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1042 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1202 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1385 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 980 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 838 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 953 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1120 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 877 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 893 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 950 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1198 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 941 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1146 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1056 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 514 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 501 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 498 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 874 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1044 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 903 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 905 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 930 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 969 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 836 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 997 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1077 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 930 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 786 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 923 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 863 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1170 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 934 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 881 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1171 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 896 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 501 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 544 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 510 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 516 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 706 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 555 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 515 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 595 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 496 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 543 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 573 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 348 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 360 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 355 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 362 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 409 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 282 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 254 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


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