Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
Welcome! Log InRegister
Thanos5150 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanos, you need to read up no this...the
> > haplotypes.
> >
> >
> > You didn't catch my drift Re the Uruk gene.
> Your
> > theory predicts an elite from Uruk ruling in
> Lower
> > (or Upper Egypt).
>
> No Manu. Apparently you are not catching my drift
> as you do not appear to read or understand what is
> said. The only one insisting they came from Uruk
> is you which you keep imposing on me no matter how
> many times I tell you in no uncertain terms this
> is not what I am saying.
>
> > Palace facades don't prove that,
> > only suggest it.
>
> No shit and this is not all what is being said
> either. Again, you do not seem to understand,
> despite being told before, that palace facade is
> not exclusive to Uruk and is part and parcel of
> Mesopotamia architecture first utilized by the
> Ubaid long before the arrival of the Sumerians.
> Also, as said before, palace facade is a but part
> of the noted Mesopotamian cultural influence.
>
> > However, if a D II ruler shows
> > the J2 haplotype, that is powerful evidence
> that
> > an Uruki descendant made into the royal lineage.
>
>
>
> J2 is found everywhere in the Near East, Levant,
> and parts of Europe and is not an exclusive to
> Uruk which is the point I am making to you. To
> repeat myself:
>
Quote

The point I am making is that the genetics
> may not say "Uruk" regardless of whether or not
> they were actually from Uruk. Uruk cultural
> influence spread over a wide geographical area,
> most notably Susa in Elam. Though distinct in some
> ways it otherwise borrowed heavily from Uruk
> culture none more so that the period during the
> 4th millennium. This is why though AE Uruk
> influence is clear, it too is different in subtle
> ways which I why I leave it in general as
> "Mesopotamian". Uruk? Elam? Elsewhere? We can't
> say for sure at this point.
>
> > Anyways, this isn't rocket science. You'll
> > probably hear about this sort of thing in the
> next
> > few years. For example, some of these
> haplotypes
> > did make into Iran, but for example there is
> zero
> > cultural overlap between Sumer and
> Shahreh-Sookhte
> > which was contemporary with Uruk and just as
> close
> > as Egypt.
>
> Shahr-i Sokhta, the "Burnt City", is an
> interesting place as is the eastern Iranian
> culture in general, but while Shahr-i Sokhta was
> founded c. 3200BC it's main archaeological phase
> dates to the mid 3rd millenniums and ends abruptly
> c. 2000BC. Uruk was founded c 5000BC and continual
> occupied for nearly the next 5,000yrs, so
> "contemporary" is a relative term.
>
> > Yet no evidence of any material cultural
> > overlap or contact.
>
>
Quote

> Bags of goods and storerooms were often
> "locked" with stamp seals, a procedure common in
> Mesopotamia in the era....

>
> Shahr-i-Sokhta boomed as the demand for precious
> goods among elites in the region and elsewhere
> grew. Though situated in inhospitable terrain, the
> city was close to tin, copper, and turquoise
> mines, and lay on the route bringing lapis lazuli
> from Afghanistan to the west. Craftsmen worked
> shells from the Persian Gulf, carnelian from
> India, and local metals such as tin and copper.
> Some they made into finished products, and others
> were exported in unfinished form. Lapis blocks
> brought from the Hindu Kush mountains, for
> example, were cut into smaller chunks and sent
> on to Mesopotamia
and as far west as Syria.
> Unworked blocks of lapis weighing more than 100
> pounds in total were unearthed in the ruined
> palace of Ebla, close to the Mediterranean
> Sea. Archaeologist Massimo Vidale of the
> University of Padua says that the elites in
> eastern Iranian cities like Shahr-i-Sokhta were
> not simply slaves to Mesopotamian markets.

> They apparently kept the best-quality lapis for
> themselves, and sent west what they did not want.
> Lapis beads found in the royal tombs of Ur,
> for example, are intricately carved, but of
> generally low-quality stone compared to those of
> Shahr-i-Sokhta.
>
> The destruction of the Mesopotamian city of Ur
> around 2000 B.C. and the later decline of Indus
> metropolises such as Mohenjo-Daro might have
> spelled doom for a trading people. The market for
> precious goods such as lapis collapsed. There is
> no clear evidence of widespread warfare, though
> Shahr-i-Sokhta appears to have been destroyed by
> fire several times. But a combination of drought,
> changes in trade routes, and economic trouble
> might have led people to abandon their cities to
> return to a simpler existence of herding and
> small-scale farming.
>
> [url=http://archive.archaeology.org/1111/features/
> dasht-e_lut_iran_shahr-i-sokta-shahad_tepe_yaha.ht
> ml]The World in Between.[/url]
>
> [b]"As well known, in Grave 731 [Shahr-i-Sokhta],
> among many others objects, a chessboard
> typologically [b]identical to the chessboards from
> the Ur [Mesopotamia] graves[/b] dated to the ED
> IIIa was found."[/b]
> [url=http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.document
> s/33574832/Salvatori_Tosi_2005.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=
> AKIAJ56TQJRTWSMTNPEA&Expires=1480012544&Signature=
> 4Lsb9hi%2FzMEW%2FIHLvcafaNH6wOQ%3D&response-conten
> t-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DShahr-i_Sokht
> a_revised_sequence.pdf]Shahr-i Sokhta Revised
> Sequence[/url]
>
> Further recommended reading:
> [url=http://www.persee.fr/doc/paleo_0153-9345_2011
> _num_37_2_5420]Shahr-i Sokhita and the Chronology
> of the Indo-Iranian Regions[/url]
>
> Of interest.
> Jiroft culture, Iran c. 3,000BC:
> [img]http://news.payvand.netdna-cdn.com/news/11/no
> v/ancient-artifacts-Jiroft-Iran-2.jpg[/img]
> [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/67/
> ab/e4/67abe4b842e922b6250e16f184c3fc20.jpg[/img]
>
> > Administrative state...your definition still
> makes
> > no sense. It ok. I made the point, no need to
> > rehash
>
> If you do not understand what I am saying at this
> point the fault is yours. So, I agree, no need to
> "rehash" i.e. me repeat myself yet again. You are
> the one hung up on this state sponsored takeover
> which you are trying to impose on me which I have
> never suggested if only the opposite.
>
> [snip]
>
> and
>
> [snip]
>
> I think we are done here.


cultural osmosis is a constant in the ancient world

the same holds true today.

Warwick

Options: ReplyQuote


Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 7994 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1022 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1171 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1066 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1220 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1131 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1187 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 927 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 946 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1007 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1016 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1084 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 765 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 873 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 940 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 944 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 941 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 833 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 915 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1072 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1233 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 862 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 720 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 835 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 854 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 760 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 770 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 827 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 994 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 826 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 919 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 936 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 404 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 389 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 387 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 754 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 928 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 785 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 787 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 814 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 843 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 726 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 882 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 950 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 814 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 676 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 814 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 742 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1018 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 820 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 754 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 948 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 658 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 391 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 431 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 405 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 411 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 584 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 441 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 406 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 418 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 389 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 427 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 461 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 236 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 254 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 247 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 255 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 298 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 167 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 100 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.