> Manu Wrote:
> > Thanos, you need to read up no this...the
> > haplotypes.
> > You didn't catch my drift Re the Uruk gene.
> > theory predicts an elite from Uruk ruling in
> > (or Upper Egypt).
> No Manu. Apparently you are not catching my drift
> as you do not appear to read or understand what is
> said. The only one insisting they came from Uruk
> is you which you keep imposing on me no matter how
> many times I tell you in no uncertain terms this
> is not what I am saying.
> > Palace facades don't prove that,
> > only suggest it.
> No shit and this is not all what is being said
> either. Again, you do not seem to understand,
> despite being told before, that palace facade is
> not exclusive to Uruk and is part and parcel of
> Mesopotamia architecture first utilized by the
> Ubaid long before the arrival of the Sumerians.
> Also, as said before, palace facade is a but part
> of the noted Mesopotamian cultural influence.
> > However, if a D II ruler shows
> > the J2 haplotype, that is powerful evidence
> > an Uruki descendant made into the royal lineage.
> J2 is found everywhere in the Near East, Levant,
> and parts of Europe and is not an exclusive to
> Uruk which is the point I am making to you. To
> repeat myself:
The point I am making is that the genetics
> may not say "Uruk" regardless of whether or not
> they were actually from Uruk. Uruk cultural
> influence spread over a wide geographical area,
> most notably Susa in Elam. Though distinct in some
> ways it otherwise borrowed heavily from Uruk
> culture none more so that the period during the
> 4th millennium. This is why though AE Uruk
> influence is clear, it too is different in subtle
> ways which I why I leave it in general as
> "Mesopotamian". Uruk? Elam? Elsewhere? We can't
> say for sure at this point.
> > Anyways, this isn't rocket science. You'll
> > probably hear about this sort of thing in the
> > few years. For example, some of these
> > did make into Iran, but for example there is
> > cultural overlap between Sumer and
> > which was contemporary with Uruk and just as
> > as Egypt.
> Shahr-i Sokhta, the "Burnt City", is an
> interesting place as is the eastern Iranian
> culture in general, but while Shahr-i Sokhta was
> founded c. 3200BC it's main archaeological phase
> dates to the mid 3rd millenniums and ends abruptly
> c. 2000BC. Uruk was founded c 5000BC and continual
> occupied for nearly the next 5,000yrs, so
> "contemporary" is a relative term.
> > Yet no evidence of any material cultural
> > overlap or contact.
> Bags of goods and storerooms were often
> "locked" with stamp seals, a procedure common in
> Mesopotamia in the era....
> Shahr-i-Sokhta boomed as the demand for precious
> goods among elites in the region and elsewhere
> grew. Though situated in inhospitable terrain, the
> city was close to tin, copper, and turquoise
> mines, and lay on the route bringing lapis lazuli
> from Afghanistan to the west. Craftsmen worked
> shells from the Persian Gulf, carnelian from
> India, and local metals such as tin and copper.
> Some they made into finished products, and others
> were exported in unfinished form. Lapis blocks
> brought from the Hindu Kush mountains, for
> example, were cut into smaller chunks and sent
> on to Mesopotamia and as far west as Syria.
> Unworked blocks of lapis weighing more than 100
> pounds in total were unearthed in the ruined
> palace of Ebla, close to the Mediterranean
> Sea. Archaeologist Massimo Vidale of the
> University of Padua says that the elites in
> eastern Iranian cities like Shahr-i-Sokhta were
> not simply slaves to Mesopotamian markets.
> They apparently kept the best-quality lapis for
> themselves, and sent west what they did not want.
> Lapis beads found in the royal tombs of Ur,
> for example, are intricately carved, but of
> generally low-quality stone compared to those of
> The destruction of the Mesopotamian city of Ur
> around 2000 B.C. and the later decline of Indus
> metropolises such as Mohenjo-Daro might have
> spelled doom for a trading people. The market for
> precious goods such as lapis collapsed. There is
> no clear evidence of widespread warfare, though
> Shahr-i-Sokhta appears to have been destroyed by
> fire several times. But a combination of drought,
> changes in trade routes, and economic trouble
> might have led people to abandon their cities to
> return to a simpler existence of herding and
> small-scale farming.
> ml]The World in Between.[/url]
> [b]"As well known, in Grave 731 [Shahr-i-Sokhta],
> among many others objects, a chessboard
> typologically [b]identical to the chessboards from
> the Ur [Mesopotamia] graves[/b] dated to the ED
> IIIa was found."[/b]
> a_revised_sequence.pdf]Shahr-i Sokhta Revised
> Further recommended reading:
> _num_37_2_5420]Shahr-i Sokhita and the Chronology
> of the Indo-Iranian Regions[/url]
> Of interest.
> Jiroft culture, Iran c. 3,000BC:
> > Administrative state...your definition still
> > no sense. It ok. I made the point, no need to
> > rehash
> If you do not understand what I am saying at this
> point the fault is yours. So, I agree, no need to
> "rehash" i.e. me repeat myself yet again. You are
> the one hung up on this state sponsored takeover
> which you are trying to impose on me which I have
> never suggested if only the opposite.
> I think we are done here.
cultural osmosis is a constant in the ancient world
the same holds true today.