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Manu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanos, you need to read up no this...the
> haplotypes.
>
>
> You didn't catch my drift Re the Uruk gene. Your
> theory predicts an elite from Uruk ruling in Lower
> (or Upper Egypt).

No Manu. Apparently you are not catching my drift as you do not appear to read or understand what is said. The only one insisting they came from Uruk is you which you keep imposing on me no matter how many times I tell you in no uncertain terms this is not what I am saying.

> Palace facades don't prove that,
> only suggest it.

No shit and this is not all what is being said either. Again, you do not seem to understand, despite being told before, that palace facade is not exclusive to Uruk and is part and parcel of Mesopotamia architecture first utilized by the Ubaid long before the arrival of the Sumerians. Also, as said before, palace facade is a but part of the noted Mesopotamian cultural influence.

> However, if a D II ruler shows
> the J2 haplotype, that is powerful evidence that
> an Uruki descendant made into the royal lineage.


J2 is found everywhere in the Near East, Levant, and parts of Europe and is not an exclusive to Uruk which is the point I am making to you. To repeat myself:
Quote

The point I am making is that the genetics may not say "Uruk" regardless of whether or not they were actually from Uruk. Uruk cultural influence spread over a wide geographical area, most notably Susa in Elam. Though distinct in some ways it otherwise borrowed heavily from Uruk culture none more so that the period during the 4th millennium. This is why though AE Uruk influence is clear, it too is different in subtle ways which I why I leave it in general as "Mesopotamian". Uruk? Elam? Elsewhere? We can't say for sure at this point.

> Anyways, this isn't rocket science. You'll
> probably hear about this sort of thing in the next
> few years. For example, some of these haplotypes
> did make into Iran, but for example there is zero
> cultural overlap between Sumer and Shahreh-Sookhte
> which was contemporary with Uruk and just as close
> as Egypt.

Shahr-i Sokhta, the "Burnt City", is an interesting place as is the eastern Iranian culture in general, but while Shahr-i Sokhta was founded c. 3200BC it's main archaeological phase dates to the mid 3rd millenniums and ends abruptly c. 2000BC. Uruk was founded c 5000BC and continually occupied for nearly the next 5,000yrs, so "contemporary" is a relative term.

> Yet no evidence of any material cultural
> overlap or contact.

Shahr-i Sokhta:
Quote

Bags of goods and storerooms were often "locked" with stamp seals, a procedure common in Mesopotamia in the era....

Shahr-i-Sokhta boomed as the demand for precious goods among elites in the region and elsewhere grew. Though situated in inhospitable terrain, the city was close to tin, copper, and turquoise mines, and lay on the route bringing lapis lazuli from Afghanistan to the west. Craftsmen worked shells from the Persian Gulf, carnelian from India, and local metals such as tin and copper. Some they made into finished products, and others were exported in unfinished form. Lapis blocks brought from the Hindu Kush mountains, for example, were cut into smaller chunks and sent on to Mesopotamia and as far west as Syria. Unworked blocks of lapis weighing more than 100 pounds in total were unearthed in the ruined palace of Ebla, close to the Mediterranean Sea. Archaeologist Massimo Vidale of the University of Padua says that the elites in eastern Iranian cities like Shahr-i-Sokhta were not simply slaves to Mesopotamian markets. They apparently kept the best-quality lapis for themselves, and sent west what they did not want. Lapis beads found in the royal tombs of Ur, for example, are intricately carved, but of generally low-quality stone compared to those of Shahr-i-Sokhta.

The destruction of the Mesopotamian city of Ur around 2000 B.C. and the later decline of Indus metropolises such as Mohenjo-Daro might have spelled doom for a trading people. The market for precious goods such as lapis collapsed. There is no clear evidence of widespread warfare, though Shahr-i-Sokhta appears to have been destroyed by fire several times. But a combination of drought, changes in trade routes, and economic trouble might have led people to abandon their cities to return to a simpler existence of herding and small-scale farming.

The World in Between.

"As well known, in Grave 731 [Shahr-i-Sokhta], among many others objects, a chessboard typologically identical to the chessboards from the Ur [Mesopotamia] graves dated to the ED IIIa was found."
Shahr-i Sokhta Revised Sequence

Further recommended reading:
Shahr-i Sokhita and the Chronology of the Indo-Iranian Regions

Of interest.
Jiroft culture, Iran c. 3,000BC:



> Administrative state...your definition still makes
> no sense. It ok. I made the point, no need to
> rehash

If you do not understand what I am saying at this point the fault is yours. So, I agree, no need to "rehash" i.e. me repeat myself yet again. You are the one hung up on this state sponsored takeover which you are trying to impose on me which I have never suggested if only the opposite.

[snip]

and

[snip]

I think we are done here.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 25-Nov-16 00:55 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 8528 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1144 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1300 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1182 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1353 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1266 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1311 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 1047 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1057 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1120 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1128 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1214 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 890 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 992 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1064 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1071 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1065 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 955 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1045 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1207 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1387 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 984 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 841 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 957 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1125 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 880 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 896 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 952 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1202 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 944 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1147 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1059 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 516 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 505 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 500 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 879 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1046 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 905 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 907 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 936 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 972 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 839 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 999 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1082 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 932 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 788 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 925 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 866 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1182 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 937 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 885 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1178 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 899 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 504 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 546 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 513 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 519 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 708 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 558 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 518 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 607 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 498 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 545 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 577 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 351 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 363 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 357 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 364 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 411 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 283 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 256 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


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