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Manu Wrote:
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> I didn't write race, I wrote genetic traits which
> are demonstrably sub-claded and demonstrably
> distinct between those two populations. That's the
> bar over or under of which your theory survives or
> dies on Thanos.

The point I am making is that the genetics may not say "Uruk" regardless of whether or not they were actually from Uruk. Uruk cultural influence spread over a wide geographical area, most notably Susa in Elam. Though distinct in some ways it otherwise borrowed heavily from Uruk culture none more so that the period during the 4th millenium. This is why though AE Uruk influence is clear, it too is different in subtle ways which I why I leave it in general as "Mesopotamian". Uruk? Elam? Elsewhere? We can't say for sure at this point.

> I do not understand your definition of
> administrative state. No dictatorial state would
> sent and sponsor an off-shoot to another nation
> and not impose all of its might and culture.
> Think of this a a scientific model. Make it bold
> and see if it holds...that's much better than a
> wishy washy grey zone proposal.

Mesopotamian city-states were part monarchy and democracy with distinct social classes. While the king had the final say it was not a dictatorship and was a society governed by laws. But again, regardless, why must they have been state sponsored? There is no evidence of it and its not required regardless. "Administration" is simply the managing of an organization or groups functions. Project managers if you will. State sponsorship not required.

Regardless, I don't need to "make" anything other than what I see from the evidence. Unlike some I am not trying to sell a bill of goods here in hopes of getting people to "believe me" regardless of the truth. I do not see it as "bold", but rather a relatively small group who had become familiar with the area over time through trade not bound to any state interests who decided to stay and be kings.

> You are in so many words basically reconstructing
> a pre-dynastic history model in which Uruk sent a
> military campaign over to the Delta and they
> battled the local folks, won, and built the White
> Walls with all the know-how from medical to
> writing to engineering to money, to agriculture,
> the entire shabang...and sent taxes home to the
> two-river mother city.

Nowhere have I said anything of the kind. You have created this scenario completely out of your own imagination.

> Contrast this with a peaceful
> settlement/migration-immigration move (the kind
> the Trump Wall wants to cut off) with
> intermingling population and some, not all,
> Meso-tech transfer from which the White Wall
> culture emerged.

Burials and palettes among others show it was not completely peaceful. AS I have already said this does not mean war, invasion, or the like, but to make an omelette sometimes you need to break a few eggs.

> This is the more likely scenario
> if Lower Egypt pre-dyn royalties do not carry
> Uruki/Anatoli genes.

As discussed we know that morphologically the Elite skeletons discovred by Petrie are not native compared to known local populations. DNA testing is swell and all, but forensics have their own tale to tell which says those people were not from around there.

> In upper Egypt, on the other hand, you have a
> totally different culture concentration and this
> culture, the Horus culture,
> ends up ransacking the
> White Wall culture and the subsequent royal
> lineages should have no trace of this genetic
> make-up, in this model.

Horus is Lower Egypt (north) i.e. your "White Wall culture". Set is Upper Egypt (south). Memphis was the capitol of the north, Thinis the south. After unification Memphis was made the capitol of Egypt over Thinis. The populations of both north and south were largely no different than the Egyptians we see today though interspersed within these cultures for various reasons at various times were Nubians.

Ankhhaf, vizier under Khafre:


Seated scribe, 4th/5th Dynasty:


Rahotep and Nofret 4th Dynasty under Sneferu (though I argue this actually dates to the 5th Dynasty:
The Mastabas of Meidum- A New Perspective):


Mastaba of Meresankh III under Khafre 4th Dynasty:

Detail Hetepheres II on right:


Tomb of Seti I, 19th Dynasty:


See a pattern developing here? I wouldn't get too hung up on what genetics would say or not say until they actually have something to say as the archaeology tells us a very interesting tale as it is.

> By the way...good job! You are by far he closest
> to a real scientist on this entire forum from what
> I can see. You weigh evidence well...that's a rare
> skill even among scientists.

I'm just a squirrel looking for a nut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24-Nov-16 17:32 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 8506 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1140 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1296 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1180 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1350 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1259 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1308 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 1044 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1055 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1118 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1126 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1210 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 888 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 990 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1061 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1069 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1063 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 952 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1042 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1202 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1385 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 980 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 838 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 953 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1120 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 877 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 893 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 950 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1197 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 941 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1146 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1056 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 514 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 501 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 498 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 874 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1044 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 902 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 905 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 930 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 969 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 836 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 997 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1076 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 930 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 786 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 923 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 863 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1170 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 934 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 881 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 1171 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 895 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 501 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 544 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 510 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 516 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 706 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 555 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 515 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 595 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 496 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 543 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 573 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 348 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 360 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 355 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 362 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 409 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 282 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 254 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


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