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Manu Wrote:
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> I didn't write race, I wrote genetic traits which
> are demonstrably sub-claded and demonstrably
> distinct between those two populations. That's the
> bar over or under of which your theory survives or
> dies on Thanos.

The point I am making is that the genetics may not say "Uruk" regardless of whether or not they were actually from Uruk. Uruk cultural influence spread over a wide geographical area, most notably Susa in Elam. Though distinct in some ways it otherwise borrowed heavily from Uruk culture none more so that the period during the 4th millenium. This is why though AE Uruk influence is clear, it too is different in subtle ways which I why I leave it in general as "Mesopotamian". Uruk? Elam? Elsewhere? We can't say for sure at this point.

> I do not understand your definition of
> administrative state. No dictatorial state would
> sent and sponsor an off-shoot to another nation
> and not impose all of its might and culture.
> Think of this a a scientific model. Make it bold
> and see if it holds...that's much better than a
> wishy washy grey zone proposal.

Mesopotamian city-states were part monarchy and democracy with distinct social classes. While the king had the final say it was not a dictatorship and was a society governed by laws. But again, regardless, why must they have been state sponsored? There is no evidence of it and its not required regardless. "Administration" is simply the managing of an organization or groups functions. Project managers if you will. State sponsorship not required.

Regardless, I don't need to "make" anything other than what I see from the evidence. Unlike some I am not trying to sell a bill of goods here in hopes of getting people to "believe me" regardless of the truth. I do not see it as "bold", but rather a relatively small group who had become familiar with the area over time through trade not bound to any state interests who decided to stay and be kings.

> You are in so many words basically reconstructing
> a pre-dynastic history model in which Uruk sent a
> military campaign over to the Delta and they
> battled the local folks, won, and built the White
> Walls with all the know-how from medical to
> writing to engineering to money, to agriculture,
> the entire shabang...and sent taxes home to the
> two-river mother city.

Nowhere have I said anything of the kind. You have created this scenario completely out of your own imagination.

> Contrast this with a peaceful
> settlement/migration-immigration move (the kind
> the Trump Wall wants to cut off) with
> intermingling population and some, not all,
> Meso-tech transfer from which the White Wall
> culture emerged.

Burials and palettes among others show it was not completely peaceful. AS I have already said this does not mean war, invasion, or the like, but to make an omelette sometimes you need to break a few eggs.

> This is the more likely scenario
> if Lower Egypt pre-dyn royalties do not carry
> Uruki/Anatoli genes.

As discussed we know that morphologically the Elite skeletons discovred by Petrie are not native compared to known local populations. DNA testing is swell and all, but forensics have their own tale to tell which says those people were not from around there.

> In upper Egypt, on the other hand, you have a
> totally different culture concentration and this
> culture, the Horus culture,
> ends up ransacking the
> White Wall culture and the subsequent royal
> lineages should have no trace of this genetic
> make-up, in this model.

Horus is Lower Egypt (north) i.e. your "White Wall culture". Set is Upper Egypt (south). Memphis was the capitol of the north, Thinis the south. After unification Memphis was made the capitol of Egypt over Thinis. The populations of both north and south were largely no different than the Egyptians we see today though interspersed within these cultures for various reasons at various times were Nubians.

Ankhhaf, vizier under Khafre:


Seated scribe, 4th/5th Dynasty:


Rahotep and Nofret 4th Dynasty under Sneferu (though I argue this actually dates to the 5th Dynasty:
The Mastabas of Meidum- A New Perspective):


Mastaba of Meresankh III under Khafre 4th Dynasty:

Detail Hetepheres II on right:


Tomb of Seti I, 19th Dynasty:


See a pattern developing here? I wouldn't get too hung up on what genetics would say or not say until they actually have something to say as the archaeology tells us a very interesting tale as it is.

> By the way...good job! You are by far he closest
> to a real scientist on this entire forum from what
> I can see. You weigh evidence well...that's a rare
> skill even among scientists.

I'm just a squirrel looking for a nut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24-Nov-16 17:32 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 7994 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1022 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1171 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1066 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1220 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1131 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1187 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 927 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 946 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1007 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1016 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1084 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 765 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 873 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 940 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 944 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 941 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 833 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 915 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1072 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1233 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 863 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 720 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 835 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 855 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 760 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 770 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 827 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 994 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 826 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 919 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 937 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 404 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 390 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 387 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 754 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 928 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 785 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 787 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 814 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 843 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 726 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 882 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 950 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 814 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 676 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 814 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 742 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1018 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 820 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 754 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 948 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 658 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 391 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 431 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 405 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 411 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 584 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 441 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 406 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 418 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 389 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 428 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 461 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 236 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 254 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 247 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 255 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 298 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 167 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 100 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


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