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Hi Big T

Thunderbird Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi
>
> Well...we are surely upsetting the mainstream and
> their timeline. : )
>
> The lack of records and limited resources used to
> lock in a timeline
> date.
> Fact is...if Adoption theory is true....and
> Sneferu/Khufu did not
> build the big block pyramids...or the Sphinx...or
> Abu Roash.
> If Serapeum and Osirion are pre dynastic
>
> Then the Ubaid and Mesopotamian/Egypt link brings
> the
> difussion which creates the Serahk kingship
> legacy
> as its already modeled in mesopotamia.
> Rulers and vassels....
> Dynastic Egypt in its early periods...to Djoser is
> not singular
> /unique.....but is a evolution of Mesopotamian
> primacy
> with the 42 ancient Khemit tribes.

The Sumerians it is said showed up in Mesopotamia c. 3,800BC, but the Ubaid did not just magically disappear at the sight of them. At this time and for the next centuries the lines between what is Ubaid and what is Sumerian are blurred compounded by the Mesopotamian tradition of building on the same spot to the same specs over and over again. The Ubaid territory was vast-from Anatolia to the Persian Gulf, that latter of which extended much farther inland at this time giving their cities greater access to the sea, to the length of the Levant and the Mediterranean sea. Here is a Syrian early Ubaid period site from c. 5,300BC:Tell Zeidan
Do not miss page #138. Yet another link to our puzzle. Occupation goes back even further at this site (c. 5,800BC) to the Halaf period, an interesting pre-Ubaid culture unto themselves. Unlike the Ubaid the Halaf still worshipped the Venus figure, arguably the last-another branch of the tree.

AE Dynasty 0 had extensive trade with southern Palestine, the Levant, and it is believed the AE even had their own outposts there for a time. This is the road to Byblos and the cedar forests of Lebanon, prized and abundant in early Dynastic times. Greater still it is the road to Syria which is substantial long before dynastic times. Syria is the gateway to eastern Europe and the Danube/Vinca/Varna culture (of whom the Ubaid share curious similarities) as well as the Black Sea peoples of Anatolia and the Caucasus.

On the desert paths between the Red Sea and Abydos, pre-dynastic rock art dated to 3,800-3,200BC is found depicting Mesopotamian style boats being dragged across the desert by its crew. Mesopotamian boats-boats identical to those found on rock art in Azerbaijan of the Caucasus dated to the same period: Azerbaijan: Land of Fire and Flood – Ancient Mariners and a Deluged Landscape.

Petrie says:
Quote

It appears, then, that the cultural connections of the earliest Egyptians, as well as the physical descriptions in their mythology, point to the Caucasus region. When, further, we find there the names of the principal places of the mythology in their relative positions, it gives strong grounds for regarding that region as the homeland of the earliest civilization of the Egyptians. (Ancient Egypt, June 1926).

Are we searching for lost civilizations or civilizations as yet to be found....

> Khufu is trading with Levant via record. ...So its
> not outreach
> but previous history relations.

Trading and migration to and from the Levant goes back for thousands of years before the formation of the Dynastic state.C, 6,000BC and for some time after the Nile flowed much greater and the Nile Delta extended all the way to Saqqara. Easy was the water road to Fayoum which was fat and abundant at the time. But this was not to last as c. 6,000BC a massive flooding event that engulfed the greater Mediterranean, something I have spoken of at length before, swelled the Nile to Biblical proportions causing the Delta to become one "great river" wiping out any trace of civilization that may have existed in its path. Is this where the builders of the Sphinx and its temples resided? Now lost far under the silt of a flooded Delta? Connections found, but how much is lost?

> David Rohl attempted to move the
> Chronology....allign it
> biblically.

Which to the chagrin of any here moved it forward in time. See also:Centuries of Darkness.

> My perspective is that the historian timetable
> such as Manetho
> Or Herotodus....even the kingship lists of Sumer
> are not correct in date/era allocates.

It appears so but to what extent in the question. RCD of the OK pushes it in its entirety back on average at least 200yrs, compressing it against the early Dynastic period which remains unmoved. Yet by the same token, recent RCD studies of the Naqada period compresses their timeline forward towards the formation of the Dynastic state by as much as 700yrs. The formation of the Dynastic state as a result becomes even more rapid, almost untenably unprecedented to think it could have been solely derived by independent invention. Yet given the great civilization of their Mesopotamian neighbors already in existence long before their time, of whom we know they had contact with regardless of how extensive one wishes to admit, this inexplicable cultural explosion comes slightly more into focus.

> Some of our later historic records are locked
> in....such as the
> Babylonian military campaigns.....the sacking of
> Canaan/Philistines
> or Jerusalem...and then the dispersion in
> Babylon.

Before 1,500BC and after 1,500BC. The latter is much clearer than the former, yet despite the seeming abundance of context by comparison it too may be off by as much as 500yrs. What does this say about the chronology before 1,500BC?

> The past attempts to timeline ancient history are
> to rigid
>
> and biased....heavy bias towards
> Isreal/Jews....and Khufu
> family and Giza.

History was written by the Western world. The information age will slowly change this as nationalism emerges in places like China, India, Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. All vying to be the "first" and "oldest". They will tell their history in their own words, with much to be discovered, and the West will be forced to listen and re-write accordingly. What grieves me is the terrorist group ISIS and their archeological crimes against humanity. They destroy the past before Islam in the name of cleansing their world of paganism yet in the same breath they steal its artifacts and sell this paganism to any who will pay it to fund their terrorism. There are few words to describe the irony of such acts. Giza and the pyramids are next.

Further exacerbating this is the decade+ of wonton archaeological looting by the citizens of Iraq as well which have turned some areas into veritable cratered moon scapes of destruction.


And we wonder why some civilizations become "lost".



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02-Aug-15 16:00 by Thanos5150.

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 8009 Thanos5150 01-Aug-15 02:50
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1025 Notinham 01-Aug-15 14:23
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1174 Graham Chase 02-Aug-15 19:59
Re: Ubaid onward 1070 Thunderbird 01-Aug-15 20:40
Re: Ubaid onward 1224 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 04:37
Re: Ubaid onward 1134 Notinham 02-Aug-15 17:31
Re: Ubaid onward 1191 Thanos5150 02-Aug-15 18:18
Re: Ubaid onward 929 Notinham 02-Aug-15 19:15
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 949 Thunderbird 02-Aug-15 20:06
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1010 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 16:12
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1018 Thunderbird 03-Aug-15 19:51
Re: Vinca/Copper/Caucuses 1087 Thanos5150 03-Aug-15 22:14
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 767 Manu 19-Nov-16 17:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 876 Thanos5150 19-Nov-16 18:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 944 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 05:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 947 Manu 20-Nov-16 07:45
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 944 Thanos5150 20-Nov-16 22:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 837 Manu 21-Nov-16 00:06
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 919 Thanos5150 21-Nov-16 02:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1076 Manu 21-Nov-16 06:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 1236 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 18:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 865 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:07
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 724 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 22:59
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 838 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:28
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 860 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 765 Manu 22-Nov-16 19:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 773 Thanos5150 22-Nov-16 21:21
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 832 Manu 22-Nov-16 22:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 998 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 02:31
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 829 Manu 23-Nov-16 04:25
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 922 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 20:01
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 940 Warwick 24-Nov-16 20:18
Mesopotamia link to Optics 409 engbren 15-May-19 15:01
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 392 Thanos5150 15-May-19 19:40
Re: Mesopotamia link to Optics 391 engbren 16-May-19 07:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 758 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:17
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 932 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 03:49
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 788 DScribr 23-Nov-16 14:52
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 789 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:11
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 817 DScribr 23-Nov-16 02:04
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 848 Thanos5150 23-Nov-16 04:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 729 DScribr 23-Nov-16 15:08
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 885 Thanos5150 24-Nov-16 05:32
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 953 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 06:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 817 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 679 DScribr 25-Nov-16 17:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 816 Thanos5150 25-Nov-16 21:17
The Ankh 746 DScribr 26-Nov-16 16:16
Re: The Ankh 1021 Thanos5150 26-Nov-16 18:15
Re: The Ankh 824 DScribr 26-Nov-16 18:42
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 756 SandyJesse 14-Dec-16 00:24
Re: Mesopotamian Origins of Writing 953 Thanos5150 15-Dec-16 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 662 Thanos5150 20-Mar-19 06:30
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 394 engbren 20-Mar-19 08:53
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 433 Corpuscles 20-Mar-19 11:55
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 408 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 03:22
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 413 jamesglory 22-Mar-19 03:47
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 588 Thanos5150 22-Mar-19 05:27
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 444 jamesglory 25-Mar-19 01:34
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 409 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:00
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 420 eyeofhorus33 25-Mar-19 18:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 392 Dr. Troglodyte 25-Mar-19 20:18
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 430 Thanos5150 25-Mar-19 20:35
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 464 Thanos5150 26-Mar-19 01:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 239 Thanos5150 21-Feb-20 16:12
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 257 waggy 21-Feb-20 18:43
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 249 Manu 21-Feb-20 19:29
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 257 waggy 21-Feb-20 21:16
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 301 Thanos5150 22-Feb-20 02:58
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 170 Thanos5150 10-Nov-20 23:40
Re: Mesopotamian Origin of the Egyptian Serekh Palace Facade Building 104 Tony S. 25-Mar-21 16:24


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