Mysteries :  The Official GrahamHancock.com forums
For serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. (NB: for more ‘out there’ posts we point you in the direction of the ‘Paranormal & Supernatural’ Message Board). 
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9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Samii, Interesting observations. I haven't directly observed anything like you describe--but that may not mean much. I'm very familiar with detailed maps of Iron County, Michigan, which indicate all of the complex trails and portages that connect lakes and chains of lakes together (together with the overlay of railroad tracks and many other sighns of civilization. Problem is, some of the b
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Good question, Jaap--and not that easy to answer. One must keep in mind that we might be talking about a time frame of 8000 years--which is a log time for copper to circulate, copper can be made into bronze, copper is valuable is relatively small quantities--so it can move around. Short answer, we don't know. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Dirk, Good source! A big reason that many support such a claim is that Isle Royale, in the middle of Lake Superior, is loaded with many pits that have not been so much disturbed by prospectors: it's been a unique Canadian/American National park for some time. One can than extrapolate with some accuracy from those sites to copper country as a whole--keeping in mind how long the mining has been
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Archae, Go to the lterature and read primary sources, starting with the seminal source, not what amounts to an encyclopedia. That's what I did when I first read the popular article I cited. Then you can answer your own questions--rather easily. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Archae, Protzen hasn't found the tools he feels are necessary for the "toolkit" either. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
22146. Nonsense?
Archae, There is a substantial scholarly literature which more than supports the claims in this popular article. The seminal anthropological/archaelogical study was by Griffin (1954). Your secondary source is a pretty weak reference. I grew up in the UP, so I'm quite familiar both with all that written "nonsense" and the facts on the ground. We take our rocks seriously there--I e
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
QuoteThe chief ingredient for bronze is copper. The era around 3000 BC saw more than 500,000 tons of copper being mined in the so-called Upper Peninsula, in the American state of Michigan. The largest mine was on Isle Royale, an island in Lake Superior, near the Canadian border. Here, there are thousands of prehistoric copper pits, dug thousands of years ago by ancient peoples unknown. The Minon
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Will, In this part of the world (where I was born), rocks are an important part of our lives and history (iron and copper). I took a class in physical science when I was in HS. A great university--originally only about rocks: Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Caroline, Welcome to GHMB. Could you explain exactly how these ideas came to the psychic? Was this a vision to him, or a folk legend tht he read? There are many folk stories like this, turned into extraterrestial hypotheses: the famous published ones by Stichin. The trick is trying establish the credibility of such ideas with evidence. Are you planning to go in that direction? Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Archae, The best emulations that I am aware of related to moving megaliths with simple tools were the two NOVA demonstrations by Lee--in Peru and Easter Island. Both of those demonstrations were consistent with your thinking--but not totally convincing. Mysteries still remain. However, Lloyd's simplifications in favor of aliens were overstated in unfortunate ways--that you've long correctl
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
DavidL, We don't know. That's the answer. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Sam, In my mind, when I don't know something, anything is possible. As I've gotten older, I've found that I know less and less, so that "unknown" category is getting bigger. The problem with Lloyd Pie's power point is that he simply lumps together a diverse collection of megaliths, and "explains" their construction through unspecified capabilities of aliens. It certainl
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Sham, As much as I appreciate the irreverence of Llyd Pye, this "Mega" argument for aliens won't fly (no pun intended). At this point, we certainly don't know how these stones were cut and sited, we're vague about when, and we even are confused about who. Exaggerating unsolved problems associated with megaliths scattered across the planet certainly doesn't establish a former (or pres
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Brien, For an overview of the excavation history, check the Chrystallinks link I posted on Pre Inca. For the details, you may need to do a bit of digging (no pun intended). Keep in mind that no one with a professional background in archaeology or geology has been interested in the specific features that you and JanPeter have identified--at least in terms of scholarly publications. Both Pro
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Ron, When I was in Northern Thailand, I had a chance to become personally familiar with the Hmong, a people who might have been in the rice fields of Chna before the Han. They still, to this day, function as small tribes of hunter-gatherers--and they seem to have been doing quite well as such for perhaps 20,000 years in the foothills of the Himalayas. They still move every thirty years or so a
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Ron, If we look for information about ancient civilizations back as far as 2000 BC, especially in Egypt, we clearly have something to talk about. If we go back to 6000 BC, we no longer have written records to rely on, and other information is much more scarse. Beyond that, our detailed knowledge almost completely poops out, and we are left in conjecture. Your conjecture may be that in earli
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Will, If the ancients had the ability to control light for burning, are you also willing to claim that they had reflecting telescopes? The design is very similar--2 spherical mirrors--with a hole in the center of the "bigger" mirror. For example, see the Gregorian: If one can cut and vitrify rock with curved mirrors, couldn't one use almost the same mirrors to look at the stars?
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Dirk, Already posted two times. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Brien, The specific link I provided is a great integration of knowledge focused specifically on the Pre Inca literature. It names names, so one can easily go from the general to the specific. It actually goes back all the way in time to 10,000 BC with published scholarly sources. One can then track down the sources and check out claims in much more detail. I won't allow students to use WIKI
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Will, As presented by you, the Watkins approach doesn't explain too little, like Protzen/Lee, it explains too much. Remember, there is a clear drop in quality from pre Incan to Incan--and it was the Inca that emphasized the sun god. Only the Tiwanakans and their predecessors used the mirrors? Why did it stop? We need a Goldilocks solution--one that doesn't explain too much or too little. Ra
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Jan, There is no academic science--or pseudoscience: only science. And it belongs to everyone. If you can make and support a claim--and if it can be replicated--sooner or later you win. If you can't, it's an interesting idea--or poorly stated--or not well thought through--or just plain wrong. I've read through you site and am very familiar with your claims. You need to find proof--you need
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Brien, Here are some of the possible linkages that might connect with your work. Forgive me for posting a well known source, but this provides great context consistent with your findings. Best, Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Jan, Everyone has to play by scientific rules to be credible--no exceptions. There are serious evidence weaknesses in Protzen's and Lee's approaches just as there are in yours, but to some extent he makes your claims possible. Protzen painstakingly shows an architectural link with historical/anthropological evidence. You've never even tried. He relies on that cultural/historical information
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Jan, You've done a great job of laying out a fascinating interlinking global perspective for Brien's photo. Nestled within that perspective is a hypothesis that the stonework in Peru goes far back in time. Though it may sound obvious and trivial to you, it is not easy to establish any of this from a scientific perspective. The best link that Protzen has come up with is to show a clear distinc
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Brien, The image doesn't show for some reason, but I was able to point to the image, click "properties," and find the url: I then navigated through your website--found and went through went through your entire very interesting slideshow. It appears that what you regard as pre-Inca is mostly different from both the "vitrification" images of JanPeter, and the Inca walls dis
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi JanPeter/Brien, I think that it would be interesting for both you and Brien to meet with Vince--especially Brien (because of Vince's Easter Island work). Vince is an architect and has written a book. Here's the hospice in Peru that represents him: His bio, self publishing company--and his 2 books: NOVA Q and A: Easter Island and Inca Best, Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
JanPeter, They clearly were not making the distinction that you and Brien are making about Inca and pre Inca. Not even Watkins. The guy who was living (and probably still is living) in Peru is Vince Lee. At the time, he was working as a local tour guide. Have you or Brien met him? Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Hi Will, It wasn't Protzen--it was Lee who really held the strong simplistic idea. It was Lee who supervised the emulations. JP just was being a prima dona. Later on, Protzen developed a more realistic view when he worked with Blair on Tiwanaku. If you check it out, there is an interesting NOVA Q and A with Lee. Ray
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Brien, As you probably know, in a famous book, Protzen (known as JP) is outspoken in attributing all stonework at Ollantaytambo to the Inca--not the pre Inca. He also claims to know how it was done. In this NOVA program, with the help of Vice Lee, he attempts to demonstrate the entire process in the field--fiollowing the approach in these threads described by Ron. Protzen's explanation is cha
Forum: Mysteries
9 years ago
drrayeye
Great post, Herman, You raise some interesting questions. I have always found the biological theory of evolution to be dangerously vague--whether we are speculating about the origin of life on earth, the splitting into species and subspeceis, or the progression from hominid to human. That doesn't mean I have been tempted by creationism or intelligent design. It appears to me that as genetic r
Forum: Mysteries
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