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OK Gang, I am still waiting for further information on this but here is a preliminary report.

The Starry Night version I have (6.4) quotes the following proper motion for Vega (0.2008, 0.2872) (RA,Dec) arcsec/year. The current SIMBAD website quoted values are (0.20094, 0.28623) [same units]. In Black Genesis I used (0.20103, 0.28747) which was at the time the SIMBAD quoted value.
SIMBAD: [simbad.u-strasbg.fr]

So anyhow that is clearly not the issue because those differences in proper motion yield less than 0.002 degrees differences over 14,000 years. (Compared to the 1.36 degrees movement of the whole proper motion itself.)

My version of Starry Night Pro shows Vega culminating at a declination of 86.2407 degrees, 12008 BC, which is 0.299 degrees less than the culmination declination I gave in Black Genesis. The difference between my value and Starry Night's value (for the declination) is not due to our very slightly different proper motions. It is because I used a different method to calculate Earth's pole movement. I calculated it from scratch, using the published equations I referenced in BG and in Origin Map. I have a query out to Starry Night, asking them details on how they calculate Earth's pole for such ancient dates, so I can identify our differences. But I haven't heard back from Starry Night yet. FYI, the reason I calculated such extremely ancient dates myself is because when I started doing such calculations circa 2001, the available software either used a much worse approximation for such extremely ancient dates, or simply didn't do dates before Julian date 0 (circa 4700 BC). I am willing to consider that maybe, today, Starry Night Pro's values might be better than mine. But I can't tell until I find out exactly how Starry Night does their calculations. And, importantly, note that these Vega shaft calculations are the only ones where such a small difference (0.3 degrees over 14,000 years) makes any difference to the interpretations. It will be interesting to track this down.

And, given that, it is interesting to look at the shaft situation if we end up taking the Starry Night value as (possibly, don't know yet) better. The center of the shaft is declination 86.544, and the edges of the shaft if we consider the outer edges at the outside of today's Pyramid are 86.2825 and 86.8052 degrees. So if Vega culminated at 86.2407 degrees it just missed shining down the shaft by 0.04 degrees, IF the whole pyramid was there 12,000 BC (and if the shaft angle did not shift geophysically at all over 14KY, and that is another separate issue). BUT we are pretty sure the whole pyramid as it is today was not there 12,000 BC. As we indicate in Black Genesis, we think, possibly if anything was there it might have been the part of the shaft that goes through the bedrock. That part is shorter, and so has a wider angle to the sky. Its edges are at declinations 86.187 and 86.900 degrees. So if Starry Night's values are correct (again, not certain about this) Vega started shining to the bottom of the bedrock shaft circa 12,120 BC, and continued shining down the shaft through its culmination 12008 BC until 11,896 BC when Vega's declination descended too low to shine down for another 26,000 years.


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Zep Tepi 317 loveritas 07-Mar-13 11:01
Re: Zep Tepi 173 Poster Boy 08-Mar-13 15:17
Re: Zep Tepi 195 loveritas 08-Mar-13 20:31
Mostly offline next couple of days 195 Thomas Brophy 08-Mar-13 23:57
Re: Mostly offline next couple of days 159 loveritas 09-Mar-13 00:34
Re:the waves of which dashed in powerless fury against its base. 191 Thunderbird 10-Mar-13 20:18
Nice To See You're Back 213 loveritas 12-Mar-13 04:22
Re: Nice To See You're Back 198 Thomas Brophy 16-Mar-13 04:52
GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 174 Dr. Lew Graham 16-Mar-13 14:03
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 194 Thomas Brophy 16-Mar-13 20:18
High on Ego 171 loveritas 16-Mar-13 21:59
and self righteous arrogance 209 Sirius7237 16-Mar-13 22:18
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 193 Bobajot 17-Mar-13 02:15
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 186 Aine 17-Mar-13 22:04
Relying Upon One's Discernment 231 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 01:35
Re: Relying Upon One's Discernment 706 cladking 18-Mar-13 20:58
Atrophy of Discernment 209 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 21:34
Re: Atrophy of Discernment 231 cladking 18-Mar-13 21:59
A Miracle? 215 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 23:42
Accidently hit "quote" instead of post and failed to correct 211 cladking 19-Mar-13 00:20
Miracles? 187 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Mar-13 00:30
Re: A Miracle? 125 Poster Boy 19-Mar-13 00:47
Typo 210 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Mar-13 01:00
Sarcasm? 189 Sirius7237 19-Mar-13 03:04
More Hypocrisy 197 loveritas 19-Mar-13 05:32
Re: Typo 171 Poster Boy 19-Mar-13 03:26
yes, maybe thinking is not ultimate ground of being 174 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 23:03
Re: yes, maybe thinking is not ultimate ground of being 207 cladking 19-Mar-13 02:16
I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 173 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 04:41
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 197 loveritas 18-Mar-13 06:07
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 245 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 22:30
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 215 loveritas 18-Mar-13 22:38
I'll Rephrase the Question 210 loveritas 19-Mar-13 20:42
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 207 Aine 19-Mar-13 21:37
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 201 loveritas 20-Mar-13 11:54
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 207 Thomas Brophy 20-Mar-13 17:47
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 205 Thunderbird 20-Mar-13 18:29
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 188 loveritas 20-Mar-13 21:33
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 192 Spiros 20-Mar-13 22:13
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 217 Laird Scranton 21-Mar-13 16:50
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 234 Spiros 21-Mar-13 19:16
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 213 Audrey 24-Mar-13 04:25
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 187 Thomas Brophy 24-Mar-13 06:10
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 160 loveritas 24-Mar-13 06:54
Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 230 Thomas Brophy 29-Mar-13 22:02
Re: Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 207 loveritas 30-Mar-13 02:05
Re: What if?...... 176 Thunderbird 30-Mar-13 20:56
Re: What if?...... 191 loveritas 30-Mar-13 23:55
Re: Zawiyet el-Aryan meridian observation shaft/Water clock 343 Thunderbird 31-Mar-13 03:37
Re: Zawiyet el-Aryan meridian observation shaft/Water clock 206 loveritas 31-Mar-13 07:56
Bond of Heaven and Earth 344 loveritas 01-Apr-13 01:25
Djed-raising ropes? 207 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 01:40
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 212 loveritas 01-Apr-13 05:18
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 205 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 06:47
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 212 loveritas 01-Apr-13 06:58
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 204 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 07:05
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 187 loveritas 01-Apr-13 07:11
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 210 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 07:24
Re: Ability....and transitions of time. 200 Thunderbird 01-Apr-13 23:19
Re: Ability....and transitions of time. 181 loveritas 01-Apr-13 23:53
Re: King and Queen Ascending/Descending 245 Thunderbird 02-Apr-13 20:07
Re: King and Queen Ascending/Descending 180 loveritas 02-Apr-13 22:37
Re: Bond of Heaven and Earth 222 Thunderbird 01-Apr-13 03:55
Some basics... 211 Thomas Brophy 31-Mar-13 00:16
Re: Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 204 Spiros 30-Mar-13 06:30
Help ask Starry Night 202 Thomas Brophy 31-Mar-13 00:58
Re: Help ask Starry Night 240 Spiros 31-Mar-13 17:58
Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 621 Thomas Brophy 02-Apr-13 19:29
Re: Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 252 Spiros 02-Apr-13 20:59
Re: Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 192 Thomas Brophy 02-Apr-13 21:22
Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 246 Thomas Brophy 10-May-13 22:39
Re: Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 215 loveritas 11-May-13 01:22
Re: Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 201 Spiros 13-May-13 22:10
What is your culminating declination? 197 Thomas Brophy 13-May-13 22:49
Re: What is your culminating declination? 198 Spiros 13-May-13 23:27
Re: What is your culminating declination? 206 Thomas Brophy 14-May-13 00:13
Re: What is your culminating declination? 163 Spiros 19-May-13 01:31
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 258 Thomas Brophy 21-Mar-13 04:20
Einstein Not Necessary 187 loveritas 21-Mar-13 06:37
Memory & Einstein 190 loveritas 24-Mar-13 23:10
Re: Memory & Einstein 207 Thomas Brophy 24-Mar-13 23:43
Re: Zep Tepi 188 Eddie Larry 14-May-13 03:45
Re: Zep Tepi 193 Sirfiroth 15-May-13 02:15
Re: Zep Tepi 176 Eddie Larry 15-May-13 03:02


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