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OK Gang, I am still waiting for further information on this but here is a preliminary report.

The Starry Night version I have (6.4) quotes the following proper motion for Vega (0.2008, 0.2872) (RA,Dec) arcsec/year. The current SIMBAD website quoted values are (0.20094, 0.28623) [same units]. In Black Genesis I used (0.20103, 0.28747) which was at the time the SIMBAD quoted value.
SIMBAD: [simbad.u-strasbg.fr]

So anyhow that is clearly not the issue because those differences in proper motion yield less than 0.002 degrees differences over 14,000 years. (Compared to the 1.36 degrees movement of the whole proper motion itself.)

My version of Starry Night Pro shows Vega culminating at a declination of 86.2407 degrees, 12008 BC, which is 0.299 degrees less than the culmination declination I gave in Black Genesis. The difference between my value and Starry Night's value (for the declination) is not due to our very slightly different proper motions. It is because I used a different method to calculate Earth's pole movement. I calculated it from scratch, using the published equations I referenced in BG and in Origin Map. I have a query out to Starry Night, asking them details on how they calculate Earth's pole for such ancient dates, so I can identify our differences. But I haven't heard back from Starry Night yet. FYI, the reason I calculated such extremely ancient dates myself is because when I started doing such calculations circa 2001, the available software either used a much worse approximation for such extremely ancient dates, or simply didn't do dates before Julian date 0 (circa 4700 BC). I am willing to consider that maybe, today, Starry Night Pro's values might be better than mine. But I can't tell until I find out exactly how Starry Night does their calculations. And, importantly, note that these Vega shaft calculations are the only ones where such a small difference (0.3 degrees over 14,000 years) makes any difference to the interpretations. It will be interesting to track this down.

And, given that, it is interesting to look at the shaft situation if we end up taking the Starry Night value as (possibly, don't know yet) better. The center of the shaft is declination 86.544, and the edges of the shaft if we consider the outer edges at the outside of today's Pyramid are 86.2825 and 86.8052 degrees. So if Vega culminated at 86.2407 degrees it just missed shining down the shaft by 0.04 degrees, IF the whole pyramid was there 12,000 BC (and if the shaft angle did not shift geophysically at all over 14KY, and that is another separate issue). BUT we are pretty sure the whole pyramid as it is today was not there 12,000 BC. As we indicate in Black Genesis, we think, possibly if anything was there it might have been the part of the shaft that goes through the bedrock. That part is shorter, and so has a wider angle to the sky. Its edges are at declinations 86.187 and 86.900 degrees. So if Starry Night's values are correct (again, not certain about this) Vega started shining to the bottom of the bedrock shaft circa 12,120 BC, and continued shining down the shaft through its culmination 12008 BC until 11,896 BC when Vega's declination descended too low to shine down for another 26,000 years.


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Subject Views Written By Posted
Zep Tepi 347 loveritas 07-Mar-13 11:01
Re: Zep Tepi 197 Poster Boy 08-Mar-13 15:17
Re: Zep Tepi 213 loveritas 08-Mar-13 20:31
Mostly offline next couple of days 216 Thomas Brophy 08-Mar-13 23:57
Re: Mostly offline next couple of days 177 loveritas 09-Mar-13 00:34
Re:the waves of which dashed in powerless fury against its base. 212 Thunderbird 10-Mar-13 20:18
Nice To See You're Back 234 loveritas 12-Mar-13 04:22
Re: Nice To See You're Back 222 Thomas Brophy 16-Mar-13 04:52
GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 195 Dr. Lew Graham 16-Mar-13 14:03
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 215 Thomas Brophy 16-Mar-13 20:18
High on Ego 189 loveritas 16-Mar-13 21:59
and self righteous arrogance 226 Sirius7237 16-Mar-13 22:18
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 226 Bobajot 17-Mar-13 02:15
Re: GHMB 'Decorum' and Other Issues 206 Aine 17-Mar-13 22:04
Relying Upon One's Discernment 254 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 01:35
Re: Relying Upon One's Discernment 725 cladking 18-Mar-13 20:58
Atrophy of Discernment 236 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 21:34
Re: Atrophy of Discernment 249 cladking 18-Mar-13 21:59
A Miracle? 233 Dr. Lew Graham 18-Mar-13 23:42
Accidently hit "quote" instead of post and failed to correct 236 cladking 19-Mar-13 00:20
Miracles? 205 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Mar-13 00:30
Re: A Miracle? 144 Poster Boy 19-Mar-13 00:47
Typo 231 Dr. Lew Graham 19-Mar-13 01:00
Sarcasm? 212 Sirius7237 19-Mar-13 03:04
More Hypocrisy 217 loveritas 19-Mar-13 05:32
Re: Typo 192 Poster Boy 19-Mar-13 03:26
yes, maybe thinking is not ultimate ground of being 191 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 23:03
Re: yes, maybe thinking is not ultimate ground of being 225 cladking 19-Mar-13 02:16
I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 195 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 04:41
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 217 loveritas 18-Mar-13 06:07
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 276 Thomas Brophy 18-Mar-13 22:30
Re: I addressed your question on Zep Tepi, no? 249 loveritas 18-Mar-13 22:38
I'll Rephrase the Question 233 loveritas 19-Mar-13 20:42
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 225 Aine 19-Mar-13 21:37
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 218 loveritas 20-Mar-13 11:54
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 229 Thomas Brophy 20-Mar-13 17:47
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 232 Thunderbird 20-Mar-13 18:29
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 208 loveritas 20-Mar-13 21:33
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 213 Spiros 20-Mar-13 22:13
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 236 Laird Scranton 21-Mar-13 16:50
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 259 Spiros 21-Mar-13 19:16
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 243 Audrey 24-Mar-13 04:25
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 207 Thomas Brophy 24-Mar-13 06:10
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 183 loveritas 24-Mar-13 06:54
Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 253 Thomas Brophy 29-Mar-13 22:02
Re: Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 234 loveritas 30-Mar-13 02:05
Re: What if?...... 196 Thunderbird 30-Mar-13 20:56
Re: What if?...... 207 loveritas 30-Mar-13 23:55
Re: Zawiyet el-Aryan meridian observation shaft/Water clock 393 Thunderbird 31-Mar-13 03:37
Re: Zawiyet el-Aryan meridian observation shaft/Water clock 225 loveritas 31-Mar-13 07:56
Bond of Heaven and Earth 373 loveritas 01-Apr-13 01:25
Djed-raising ropes? 229 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 01:40
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 231 loveritas 01-Apr-13 05:18
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 223 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 06:47
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 235 loveritas 01-Apr-13 06:58
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 222 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 07:05
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 208 loveritas 01-Apr-13 07:11
Re: Djed-raising ropes? 233 Thomas Brophy 01-Apr-13 07:24
Re: Ability....and transitions of time. 220 Thunderbird 01-Apr-13 23:19
Re: Ability....and transitions of time. 198 loveritas 01-Apr-13 23:53
Re: King and Queen Ascending/Descending 267 Thunderbird 02-Apr-13 20:07
Re: King and Queen Ascending/Descending 200 loveritas 02-Apr-13 22:37
Re: Bond of Heaven and Earth 243 Thunderbird 01-Apr-13 03:55
Some basics... 233 Thomas Brophy 31-Mar-13 00:16
Re: Starry Night Pro calculation still not clarified 237 Spiros 30-Mar-13 06:30
Help ask Starry Night 220 Thomas Brophy 31-Mar-13 00:58
Re: Help ask Starry Night 271 Spiros 31-Mar-13 17:58
Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 665 Thomas Brophy 02-Apr-13 19:29
Re: Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 279 Spiros 02-Apr-13 20:59
Re: Starry Night Pro 'fesses up to precession calculation errors 212 Thomas Brophy 02-Apr-13 21:22
Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 270 Thomas Brophy 10-May-13 22:39
Re: Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 233 loveritas 11-May-13 01:22
Re: Starry Night Pro precession calculation fix delayed 229 Spiros 13-May-13 22:10
What is your culminating declination? 218 Thomas Brophy 13-May-13 22:49
Re: What is your culminating declination? 216 Spiros 13-May-13 23:27
Re: What is your culminating declination? 231 Thomas Brophy 14-May-13 00:13
Re: What is your culminating declination? 183 Spiros 19-May-13 01:31
Re: I'll Rephrase the Question 291 Thomas Brophy 21-Mar-13 04:20
Einstein Not Necessary 207 loveritas 21-Mar-13 06:37
Memory & Einstein 211 loveritas 24-Mar-13 23:10
Re: Memory & Einstein 232 Thomas Brophy 24-Mar-13 23:43
Re: Zep Tepi 209 Eddie Larry 14-May-13 03:45
Re: Zep Tepi 211 Sirfiroth 15-May-13 02:15
Re: Zep Tepi 193 Eddie Larry 15-May-13 03:02


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