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The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

The date for the composition of this document is unknown. The papyrus itself (Papyrus Leiden I 344) is a copy made during the New Kingdom of Egypt.[1] The dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date between the late 6th dynasty and the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE),[4] and appears to describe how the Hyksos took over Egypt.[5] [6] The theme of this work had previously been taken either as a lament inspired by the supposed chaos of the First Intermediate Period,[5] or as a plea to Pepi II Neferkare depicting the fall of the Old Kingdom.[7][8] The admonitions may not be a discussion with a king at all however. Otto was the first to suggest that the discussion was not between Ipuwer and his king, but that this was a discussion between Ipuwer and a deity. Fecht showed through philological interpretation and revision of the relevant passages that this is indeed a discussion with a deity.[9] Modern research suggests that the papyrus dates to the much later 13th dynasty, with part of the papyrus now thought to date to the time of Pharaoh Khety, and the admonitions of Ipuwer actually being addressed to the god Atum, not a mortal king.[10] The admonitions are thought to harken back to the First Intermediate Period and record a decline in international relations and a general impoverishment in Egypt.

MA: Why should we consider this, supposedly later, document as a credible source for "pre-fifth" Egypt?

SC: As the Wiki article states: "... The date for the composition of this document is unknown... the dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date..."

So scholars simply do not know for certain the date for the original composition - it's in dispute. But anyway - we are not saying this document is pre-fifth dynasty - only that it tells us "...what the pyramid concealed was emptied..." And it seems this emptying of the pyramids took place during a period of great upheaval in ancient Egypt as one would imagine rapid and catastrophic climate change would bring.

Regards,

Scott

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 613 Scott Creighton 01-Feb-12 18:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 236 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 05:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 13:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 228 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:11
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 239 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 14:29
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 238 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 249 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 15:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 246 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:27
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 230 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 245 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 230 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:19
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 234 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 210 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 217 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:07
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 320 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 18:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 198 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 233 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 19:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 229 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 231 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 21:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 215 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 19:56
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 235 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:08
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 260 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:04
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 223 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:14
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 220 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:36
Re: Finding a starting point 240 Thunderbird 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 220 Audrey 03-Feb-12 02:41
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 184 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:47
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 218 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 195 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 10:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 250 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:57
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 165 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:43
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 211 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 232 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 225 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:28
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 246 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:11
BREAKING NEWS 220 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:35
Re: BREAKING NEWS 224 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:12
Re: BREAKING NEWS 229 Spiros 02-Feb-12 22:40
Re: BREAKING NEWS 254 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:45
Re: BREAKING NEWS 248 Spiros 03-Feb-12 13:06
Re: BREAKING NEWS 241 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 20:26
addendum 259 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 21:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 226 cladking 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 245 Audrey 03-Feb-12 03:23
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 236 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 03:37
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 247 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:36
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 296 Spiros 02-Feb-12 15:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 237 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:55
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 204 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 257 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 224 Spiros 02-Feb-12 19:58
the 727 AD alignment 220 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 348 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 04:49
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 232 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:44
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 360 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 05:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 264 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 12:35
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 226 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 13:13
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 255 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 14:43
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 265 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 18:12
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 224 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 18:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 247 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 19:30
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 229 Chris Jordan 04-Feb-12 19:24
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 287 Lothur 03-Feb-12 19:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 260 PsycheDelia Smith 03-Feb-12 21:10
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 263 Lothur 04-Feb-12 01:22
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 261 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:14
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 269 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:28
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 237 Audrey 04-Feb-12 06:39
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 240 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 12:06
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 293 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 242 Morten 04-Feb-12 03:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 251 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 14:47
The Dialogue of Ipuur 230 Morten 04-Feb-12 18:25
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 226 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 18:34
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 247 Morten 04-Feb-12 19:05
Exploratory or argumentative? 252 drrayeye 04-Feb-12 22:46
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 215 Morten 05-Feb-12 11:02
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 256 drrayeye 05-Feb-12 13:28
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 265 Thunderbird 05-Feb-12 18:27
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 239 Gary Osborn 04-Feb-12 23:31
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 243 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 02:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 253 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 14:29
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 233 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 17:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 339 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:52
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 197 Morten 05-Feb-12 10:39
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 273 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:48
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 231 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 16:07
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 453 cladking 05-Feb-12 16:59
Pocket Fisherman ... 274 jnisbet 04-Feb-12 08:38
Re: Pocket Fisherman ... 223 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:00
On second thought .... 227 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 02:05
Re: On second thought .... 244 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 13:27
Re: On second thought .... 287 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 13:34
Re: On second thought .... 246 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 13:45
Re: On second thought .... 251 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 14:33
Re: On second thought .... 226 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 14:47
Re: On second thought .... 184 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:53
Re: On second thought .... 243 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 15:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 235 LonelyAngel 05-Feb-12 16:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 235 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 242 Glanymor1948 05-Feb-12 20:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 260 Scott Creighton 06-Feb-12 11:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 231 Audrey 11-Feb-12 19:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 239 Gary Osborn 11-Feb-12 22:05
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 230 Ahatmose 11-Feb-12 23:48
Re: What if they were not Egyptians? 210 Thunderbird 12-Feb-12 02:46
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 216 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-12 00:02
Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 cladking 22-Feb-12 22:45
Re: Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 200 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 11:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 258 Drewski 23-Feb-12 10:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 256 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 23:58
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 210 Drewski 24-Feb-12 01:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 202 Scott Creighton 24-Feb-12 10:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 259 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 11:16
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 227 Gary Osborn 24-Feb-12 12:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 253 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 17:48
Form follows function, etc. ... 257 jnisbet 26-Feb-12 05:08


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