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The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

The date for the composition of this document is unknown. The papyrus itself (Papyrus Leiden I 344) is a copy made during the New Kingdom of Egypt.[1] The dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date between the late 6th dynasty and the Second Intermediate Period (ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE),[4] and appears to describe how the Hyksos took over Egypt.[5] [6] The theme of this work had previously been taken either as a lament inspired by the supposed chaos of the First Intermediate Period,[5] or as a plea to Pepi II Neferkare depicting the fall of the Old Kingdom.[7][8] The admonitions may not be a discussion with a king at all however. Otto was the first to suggest that the discussion was not between Ipuwer and his king, but that this was a discussion between Ipuwer and a deity. Fecht showed through philological interpretation and revision of the relevant passages that this is indeed a discussion with a deity.[9] Modern research suggests that the papyrus dates to the much later 13th dynasty, with part of the papyrus now thought to date to the time of Pharaoh Khety, and the admonitions of Ipuwer actually being addressed to the god Atum, not a mortal king.[10] The admonitions are thought to harken back to the First Intermediate Period and record a decline in international relations and a general impoverishment in Egypt.

MA: Why should we consider this, supposedly later, document as a credible source for "pre-fifth" Egypt?

SC: As the Wiki article states: "... The date for the composition of this document is unknown... the dating of the original composition of the poem is disputed, but several scholars have suggested a date..."

So scholars simply do not know for certain the date for the original composition - it's in dispute. But anyway - we are not saying this document is pre-fifth dynasty - only that it tells us "...what the pyramid concealed was emptied..." And it seems this emptying of the pyramids took place during a period of great upheaval in ancient Egypt as one would imagine rapid and catastrophic climate change would bring.

Regards,

Scott

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Subject Views Written By Posted
Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 486 Scott Creighton 01-Feb-12 18:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 173 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 05:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 180 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 13:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 171 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:11
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 179 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 14:29
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 177 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 14:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 194 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 15:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 181 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 184 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 184 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:27
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 170 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 16:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 185 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 16:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 164 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:19
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 173 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:35
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 150 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 17:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 152 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:07
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 249 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 18:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 136 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 178 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 19:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 166 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:31
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 173 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 21:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 152 Scott Creighton 02-Feb-12 19:56
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 180 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:08
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 196 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:04
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 166 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:14
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 157 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 00:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 179 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 00:36
Re: Finding a starting point 181 Thunderbird 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 155 Audrey 03-Feb-12 02:41
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 109 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:47
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 156 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 02:54
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 130 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 10:02
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 180 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:57
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 110 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 17:43
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 151 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 166 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 18:20
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 167 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 18:28
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 176 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 19:11
BREAKING NEWS 164 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:35
Re: BREAKING NEWS 166 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:12
Re: BREAKING NEWS 162 Spiros 02-Feb-12 22:40
Re: BREAKING NEWS 194 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 22:45
Re: BREAKING NEWS 183 Spiros 03-Feb-12 13:06
Re: BREAKING NEWS 181 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 20:26
addendum 195 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 21:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 164 cladking 03-Feb-12 00:52
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 182 Audrey 03-Feb-12 03:23
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 176 Ahatmose 03-Feb-12 03:37
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 179 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:36
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 240 Spiros 02-Feb-12 15:13
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 178 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 177 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:55
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 145 Ahatmose 02-Feb-12 15:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 197 Gary Osborn 02-Feb-12 16:01
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 169 Spiros 02-Feb-12 19:58
the 727 AD alignment 159 Spiros 02-Feb-12 20:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 288 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 04:49
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 170 Audrey 03-Feb-12 05:44
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 302 NetWorkAngel 03-Feb-12 05:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 193 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 12:35
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 164 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 13:13
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 190 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 14:43
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 204 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 18:12
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 162 Scott Creighton 03-Feb-12 18:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 182 Chris Jordan 03-Feb-12 19:30
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 159 Chris Jordan 04-Feb-12 19:24
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 207 Lothur 03-Feb-12 19:50
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 194 PsycheDelia Smith 03-Feb-12 21:10
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 193 Lothur 04-Feb-12 01:22
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 188 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:14
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 196 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:28
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 176 Audrey 04-Feb-12 06:39
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 170 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 12:06
Re: RVT vs Standard seed/grain storage. 220 Lothur 04-Feb-12 16:25
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 175 Morten 04-Feb-12 03:59
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 183 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 14:47
The Dialogue of Ipuur 157 Morten 04-Feb-12 18:25
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 162 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 18:34
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 193 Morten 04-Feb-12 19:05
Exploratory or argumentative? 191 drrayeye 04-Feb-12 22:46
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 159 Morten 05-Feb-12 11:02
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 187 drrayeye 05-Feb-12 13:28
Re: Exploratory or argumentative? 197 Thunderbird 05-Feb-12 18:27
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 176 Gary Osborn 04-Feb-12 23:31
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 177 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 02:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 185 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 14:29
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 174 magisterchessmutt 05-Feb-12 17:46
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 271 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:52
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 126 Morten 05-Feb-12 10:39
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 212 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:48
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 166 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 16:07
Re: The Dialogue of Ipuur 386 cladking 05-Feb-12 16:59
Pocket Fisherman ... 207 jnisbet 04-Feb-12 08:38
Re: Pocket Fisherman ... 164 Scott Creighton 04-Feb-12 15:00
On second thought .... 165 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 02:05
Re: On second thought .... 181 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 13:27
Re: On second thought .... 218 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 13:34
Re: On second thought .... 188 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 13:45
Re: On second thought .... 188 jnisbet 05-Feb-12 14:33
Re: On second thought .... 169 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 14:47
Re: On second thought .... 120 Scott Creighton 05-Feb-12 14:53
Re: On second thought .... 183 Ahatmose 05-Feb-12 15:38
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 180 LonelyAngel 05-Feb-12 16:39
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 172 Gary Osborn 05-Feb-12 17:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 162 Glanymor1948 05-Feb-12 20:30
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 200 Scott Creighton 06-Feb-12 11:17
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 168 Audrey 11-Feb-12 19:53
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 183 Gary Osborn 11-Feb-12 22:05
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 171 Ahatmose 11-Feb-12 23:48
Re: What if they were not Egyptians? 153 Thunderbird 12-Feb-12 02:46
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 152 Scott Creighton 13-Feb-12 00:02
Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 185 cladking 22-Feb-12 22:45
Re: Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 133 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 11:12
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 191 Drewski 23-Feb-12 10:48
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 193 Scott Creighton 23-Feb-12 23:58
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 146 Drewski 24-Feb-12 01:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 141 Scott Creighton 24-Feb-12 10:50
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 189 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 11:16
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 167 Gary Osborn 24-Feb-12 12:15
Re: Introducing the Pyramid 'Recovery Vault Theory' (RVT) 180 BethSwiss 24-Feb-12 17:48
Form follows function, etc. ... 192 jnisbet 26-Feb-12 05:08


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