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Hi Steve:
Wine symbolism is everywhere you look in the ancient world, particularly in the mediterranean regions and those just beyond it. It is much older than the cult of Dionysus/Bacchus with its roots reaching far back into Sumerian and Egyptian times. As you mention, even in Islam, which of course is later, and where alcohol is generally forbidden, the Sufis or mystical core use it to bring about the change of consciousness known to Plato as "the divine mania"--as a way of experiencing the divine. At the heart of the connection between wine and religion is the miracle of fermentation. This natural transformation through the action of yeasts on the skins of the grapes upon the sugars in the broken grapes spoke powerfully of inner
spiritual transformation. The similarity between grape juice and blood, plus the "lift" of mood made it a natural emblem of the entry of the divine into human life--hence its almost universal use as a sacramental meal long before the Christian era. The vine is the plant most often cited in the Bible for this very reason. Horus was a wine god, so too was dionysus; so too was the Jesus of the Gospels.

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Tom Harpur is now online 1048 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 19:03
Wine symbolism 595 Jaimi2 20-Jul-04 19:28
Re: Wine symbolism 407 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 19:50
Re: Wine symbolism 454 wireloop 20-Jul-04 21:20
& bread 351 michael saunders 20-Jul-04 21:28
Re: & bread 363 wireloop 20-Jul-04 22:09
Re: & bread 407 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:44
Re: & bread 355 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:43
Re: Wine symbolism 359 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:38
Welcome Tom Harpur 441 Kees 20-Jul-04 19:40
Re: Welcome Tom Harpur 403 Graham Hancock 21-Jul-04 22:50
Re: Welcome Tom Harpur 469 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 02:01
A general template or not? 355 Kees 20-Jul-04 19:51
Re: A general template or not? 328 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 20:02
Re: A general template or not? 312 Kees 20-Jul-04 20:23
Re: A general template or not? 297 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:48
Re: A general template or not? 324 Milo 20-Jul-04 22:52
Re: A general template or not? 451 banah 24-Jul-04 11:51
Re: A general template or not? 457 Kees 20-Jul-04 23:06
Re: A general template or not? 341 wireloop 20-Jul-04 23:37
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 343 Cross 20-Jul-04 20:20
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 356 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 20:51
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 328 Cross 21-Jul-04 02:48
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 358 Bill Barrington 21-Jul-04 12:13
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 292 Anne-Marie 24-Jul-04 16:26
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 292 wireloop 20-Jul-04 20:24
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 338 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 21:01
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 368 Jaimi2 20-Jul-04 21:11
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 398 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 21:26
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 327 Milo 20-Jul-04 21:40
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 337 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 21:51
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 326 Milo 20-Jul-04 22:29
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 346 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:36
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 335 Milo 20-Jul-04 22:46
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 330 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 22:55
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 339 Milo 20-Jul-04 23:08
Glitch in GHMB, do not reply here 310 Anonymous User 21-Jul-04 01:29
Rob.... 379 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 02:32
Incarnation versus Re-incarnation 350 Kees 20-Jul-04 22:27
Re: Incarnation versus Re-incarnation 339 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 23:04
Re: Incarnation versus Re-incarnation 342 turnofthetide 21-Jul-04 20:53
Re: Incarnation versus Re-incarnation 331 Peter Novak 28-Jul-04 17:44
Re: Incarnation versus Re-incarnation 569 Peter Novak 28-Jul-04 17:52
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 346 Tom Harpur 20-Jul-04 23:06
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 380 Kees 20-Jul-04 23:08
Massey and Orion 325 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 03:06
Re: Massey and Orion 342 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 18:45
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 422 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 18:27
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 405 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 18:36
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 342 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 18:46
Welcome back Tom Harpur 365 Kees 21-Jul-04 18:37
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 321 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 18:43
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 323 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 18:49
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 429 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 19:01
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 372 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:11
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 282 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 19:29
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 448 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:40
Re: Welcome back Tom Harpur 281 wireloop 21-Jul-04 19:52
KRST and anti KRST 516 Kees 21-Jul-04 19:20
Re: KRST and anti KRST 455 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:28
Re: KRST and anti KRST 401 Kees 21-Jul-04 19:33
Re: KRST and anti KRST 344 Jaimi2 21-Jul-04 19:46
Re: KRST and anti KRST 354 Kees 21-Jul-04 19:58
Re: KRST and anti KRST 355 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:52
Re: KRST and anti KRST 399 Kees 21-Jul-04 20:05
Re: KRST and anti KRST 310 turnofthetide 21-Jul-04 21:06
Re: KRST and anti KRST 378 Kees 21-Jul-04 21:15
Re: KRST and anti KRST 291 wireloop 21-Jul-04 20:43
any opinion/knowledge re: Alan Alford's symbolism 332 JimLewandowski 21-Jul-04 18:57
Re: any opinion/knowledge re: Alan Alford's symbolism 366 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:14
Where are all our regular literalists?? 336 Kees 21-Jul-04 19:29
I'd love to debate..... 327 michael saunders 21-Jul-04 19:33
Re: I'd love to debate..... 380 Kees 21-Jul-04 19:38
Re: I'd love to debate..... 329 wireloop 21-Jul-04 20:12
Re: I'd love to debate..... 458 Kees 21-Jul-04 20:18
Re: I'd love to debate..... 277 wireloop 21-Jul-04 20:45
Re: I'd love to debate..... 343 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 19:56
Re: I'd love to debate..... 336 michael saunders 21-Jul-04 20:09
Re: I'd love to debate..... 312 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 20:26
Re: I'd love to debate..... 347 michael saunders 22-Jul-04 10:19
Re: I'd love to debate..... 308 Broker 22-Jul-04 22:20
Re: I'd love to debate..... 362 Anne-Marie 23-Jul-04 12:50
Re: I'd love to debate..... 419 michael saunders 23-Jul-04 18:23
Re: I'd love to debate..... 303 Anne-Marie 23-Jul-04 23:17
Re: I'd love to debate..... 302 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 01:50
Re: Where are all our regular literalists?? 331 Anne-Marie 21-Jul-04 22:21
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 274 Maria KA 21-Jul-04 19:45
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 341 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 20:04
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 365 Maria KA 21-Jul-04 20:25
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 338 Tom Harpur 21-Jul-04 20:29
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 375 Maria KA 21-Jul-04 21:02
Helios 435 Jaimi2 22-Jul-04 03:15
Re: Helios 299 wireloop 22-Jul-04 22:05
Re: Helios 364 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 02:06
Re: Helios 454 Anne-Marie 24-Jul-04 14:58
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 344 wireloop 24-Jul-04 04:24
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 371 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 19:11
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 335 wireloop 24-Jul-04 19:34
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 409 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 21:36
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 338 banah 24-Jul-04 12:15
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 328 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 19:21
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 341 banah 24-Jul-04 21:25
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 320 Tom Harpur 24-Jul-04 21:32
Re: Tom Harpur is now online 337 banah 24-Jul-04 21:41
And Genesis 6:4 will supply your answer 390 JimLewandowski 24-Jul-04 21:40


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